Religion

JOEBIALEK · 04-13-2005, 05:14 PM

With the passing of Pope John Paul ll, perhaps some reflection on religious beliefs is appropriate. Religion is defined as a set of beliefs concerned with explaining the origins and purposes of the universe, usually involving belief in a supernatural creator and offering guidance in ethics and morals. It also consists of any of several institutions with their own beliefs, rituals, and teachings. Throughout history and even still today, most religions claim to be the one true religion and all others are considered either phony imitations or some sort of heretical sacrilege. It is a sad reality that most people do not recognize the benefit of what can be learned from other religions along the way of their spiritual journey. If one studies the major religions of today such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etcetera they will find more similarities than differences. They are guides for how to live and grow spiritually. Some would argue that religion has been one of the biggest causes of humanity's problems but others counter that it is the misinterpretation of religious tenets that causes strife. Still further, many people see religion as a form of control over the masses whereas others see it as a necessary shield against evil influences.

I had the opportunity to read a book recently concerning near death experiences {NDE}. The book was a compilation of individual testimonies by those who left their bodies temporarily and returned to tell about their experience. The author characterized their stories and then pointed out the large similarities and small differences in each of the NDE's. Two personal friends of mine have had an NDE and shared their experience with me. I've also communicated with a deceased friend by way of a psychic medium. All three sources agreed that upon death of the body, we travel through a tunnel toward a bright, warm and loving light. Upon entering the light, we are given a life review. During the life review, we re-experience all the thoughts, words and actions that came from us. Anything negative is re-experienced as though we are the person on the receiving end of our negativity. For example, one of the contributors to the book re-experienced the event where he had severely beaten another man although this time, he felt the blows he had administered. The whole premise for experiencing the light appears to be an opportunity to examine what we have learned along our spiritual journey. In conclusion, it appears that Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Confucius, and Buddha were all very wise men who made a significant impact on humanity teaching spirituality as it applied to a specific civilization. Perhaps if humanity could somehow integrate all these religious belief systems toward the goal of one spirituality with God, we could finally begin to see the emergence of world peace.

JOEBIALEK · 04-14-2005, 05:43 PM

no replies?

andy · 04-15-2005, 07:45 AM

Its an interesting idea, but probably not likely, I'm afraid. Although, Buddhism does promote most of the things you're proposing: advancing along your own spiritual path and understanding that others might have a different path.

**keith** · 04-15-2005, 09:49 AM

That was a very thoughtful post. Thank you.

Pope John Paul II was a great man. Even in death he still causes many to thoughtfully examine beliefs; your post seems to have been prompted by his passing and by your own reflections on his passing.

Your post struck a chord with me. I'm starting another Forum at the moment (at www.Scouts.com). When you speak of using the examples of the lives of the leaders of great religions as guides to positive ways to live one's life, I'm reminded of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law; in the simplest terms, these are my guideposts. Having held Scouts own service many a Sunday morning under a canopy of trees, sometimes snow-covered, I've always been thrilled by the 'communion' regardless of the particulars of any one Scout's faith. The idea in Scouting is that one simply have faith, and that we respect one anothers' faiths and beliefs as well as our own.

Thank you again for your post. I believe it will cause more reflection than you might have guessed. In time, replies will come as people indulge themselves, taking the time to share what are often our innermost thoughts - thoughts that often go unshared. I'm pleased to be part of an online community that encourages the thougtful sharing of ideas. I hope to indulge myself and share more here later. After putting a roof over our heads and food on the table these are, after all, the things that really matter.

Regards,
Keith

xswinnyx · 04-15-2005, 11:07 AM

I was told never to discuss religion or politics. But I'm curious what others think.
It's my belief that religion is only a man made idea. The important thing is your relationship. All religions have some sort of truth to them, but none of them are correct in every aspect, because man has influanced them all. I believe that if you read the bible, in the right "spirit", you will live your life by your convictions, and end up being in the only true "religion", because it comes directly from God. This is not to say that it could really be concidered a religion, because someone elses convictions, will differ from yours. So, to me, that would be your relationship with God that is important. :wink:

bgdawg · 09-17-2005, 01:29 AM

I am a spiritual person but I abhore religion. I believe solely in Jesus as my savior however I do not believe one single religious version has it right. However I am keenly aware that many have it wrong.

Moses was not a spiritual leader he was a reciter of law. If you study Moses at all you will easily see he stated the tenants of what we now know as Judaism. However he was never the proctor of the tenants of the faith this task or ordination was given to his brother.

Jesus did not institute a religious belief either. Rather he brought enlightenment to the faith of Judaism. He also opened the faith to non-Hebrew peoples known as "Gentiles". Also providing grace on the behalf of believers in the areas of the law.

Religion is not defined as a faith or belief. Religion is defined as a custom or tradition for the purpose of expressing or observing one's faith. Such as I religiously eat Turkey on thanksgiving for the purpose of Identifying with the pilgrims. Religion is the invention of man for the express purpose of identifying with their belief in God.

God however is NOT found in religion, this is not to say that God is not fond or loving of those that practice a religion. More so to say God is not stifled inside the peramiters of a specific framework. Those that search for God may find him inside of a religion not because he is there but more so because God responds to those who search.

God has often stated he has no desire to be found in the same place twice. He states he will use the foolish to confound the wise and use the weak to confound the strong. God is not interested in Mans opinion more so in ensuring no man can define him.

As far as Buddah and Mohammad and so on, let me ask simply. Have any of them returned form the dead? Have they ever even claimed it? Do you know why they never claimed it? Because you have to do it to claim it. Jesus is a document person. Documented by the Roman government and ALL the known historians of the day. He is also documented to have had contact with over 500 people after his resurection.

Crys · 09-19-2005, 11:35 AM

bgdawg: There is actually no contemporary documentation that your Jesus existed, and the part about the resurrection was added a couple _centuries_ after whatever person may or may not have existed. Mark is the only ONLY _potentially_ contemporary account, and it has been added to since then. It originally ended with Jesus's death.

I am an historian and Classical scholar by training and inclination. I will not quibble religion in these forums, but I will protest when things are stated as fact when they are flatly not true.

Lack of documentation does not invalidate your religion. But religion does not equal completely factual history.

bgdawg · 09-19-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crys

bgdawg: There is actually no contemporary documentation that your Jesus existed, and the part about the resurrection was added a couple _centuries_ after whatever person may or may not have existed. Mark is the only ONLY _potentially_ contemporary account, and it has been added to since then. It originally ended with Jesus's death.

I am an historian and Classical scholar by training and inclination. I will not quibble religion in these forums, but I will protest when things are stated as fact when they are flatly not true.

Lack of documentation does not invalidate your religion. But religion does not equal completely factual history.

In fact you are incorrect on three accounts biblically, all of the 4 gospels are contemporary accounts of Jesus. Matthew, Mark and John were all within the inner circle of followers of Jesus. The Gospel of Luke is widely known as the Biographical account of Peter also known to be in the inner circle. Not to mention some 70 historians document the fact of Jesus as it was known. Chief among them is Josephus a hebrew historian. There are no existing Roman documents of history however there are Roman tax records that Document Jesus and his parents, by lineage.

Here is a link to an essay that gives the references I have spoken about. The thing that makes this essay credible in this case is that as you read it you will see it clearly is not a prop for christianity.

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html

I might just be of some historical training as well.

**Kris10** · 09-19-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

As far as Buddah and Mohammad and so on, let me ask simply. Have any of them returned form the dead? Have they ever even claimed it? Do you know why they never claimed it? Because you have to do it to claim it.

You can claim that you've done anything. I could claim right now that I drive a Porsche, date Brad Pitt and rose from the dead just last Wednesday. Whether people believe it is another story. Documented history can also be questioned along these lines. Whether the scribe was truthful or not is probably known only to the scribe. If he made his truth sound good enough, chances are people will believe it. It is just like today's tabloids.

This is where faith comes in. Faith involves sticking our neck out into the unknown and intangible because of a belief we hold dear. Whether Jesus existed, died and rose again can be debated historically, but there is no question that millions believe this to be true. I'd rather have faith than fact when it comes to my religion because I'd rather live on hope, change and perhaps the miraculous. There's enough fact in this world to bring me down.

bgdawg · 09-20-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris10

You can claim that you've done anything. I could claim right now that I drive a Porsche, date Brad Pitt and rose from the dead just last Wednesday. Whether people believe it is another story. Documented history can also be questioned along these lines. Whether the scribe was truthful or not is probably known only to the scribe. If he made his truth sound good enough, chances are people will believe it. It is just like today's tabloids.

This is where faith comes in. Faith involves sticking our neck out into the unknown and intangible because of a belief we hold dear. Whether Jesus existed, died and rose again can be debated historically, but there is no question that millions believe this to be true. I'd rather have faith than fact when it comes to my religion because I'd rather live on hope, change and perhaps the miraculous. There's enough fact in this world to bring me down.

Did you read the essay I linked to? Not a scribes work, historians, as well as historical documents. These arent people who followed jesus around and hoped he found their writings favorable. They were writing from the view point of the Romans and Jews of the day Both of which had reason to see Jesus discredited.

As far as being able to claim what you do. If you claim you drive a Porsche and date Brad Pit do you think that would stand up to the scrutiny that Jesus has endured?

I dont know about other faiths, but I know that as a christain you are admonished by God the father to test him and know he is true. A believer in Jesus is asked to trust by faith he is the Messiah, that is what you take on faith, beyond that Jesus' followers are repeatedly instructed to search, study, and test God. The reason the followers of Jesus today are ineffective is they have been raised on faith and grace. They think they dont have to know for sure because all they need is faith.

xswinnyx · 09-20-2005, 11:47 AM

All of those reasons, are why the bible talks so much that FAITH is so very important. None of us know for sure (by physical evidence) that the bible is true. What we chose to believe (our faith) is our own decision. when the end comes, we will find out who's right or wrong. The hate and discontent, that is caused by arguments over "religion," I chose to believe is a tool of the devil. Your all correct, as far as you know. Different people are taught in different ways, and I was taught that we are judged according to our knowledge of the word. If you really want to know what is correct (in my opinion) read and study the Bible for yourself, and live by your own convictions. But one would have to read it with an open mind, not start with the idea that it's all a load of bull. Personally, I'd hate to think that it's all over when our bodies die. Seems pretty meaningless to me. That in itself could make somebody suicidal.

bgdawg · 09-20-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xswinnyx

All of those reasons, are why the bible talks so much that FAITH is so very important. None of us know for sure (by physical evidence) that the bible is true. What we chose to believe (our faith) is our own decision. when the end comes, we will find out who's right or wrong. The hate and discontent, that is caused by arguments over "religion," I chose to believe is a tool of the devil. Your all correct, as far as you know. Different people are taught in different ways, and I was taught that we are judged according to our knowledge of the word. If you really want to know what is correct (in my opinion) read and study the Bible for yourself, and live by your own convictions. But one would have to read it with an open mind, not start with the idea that it's all a load of bull. Personally, I'd hate to think that it's all over when our bodies die. Seems pretty meaningless to me. That in itself could make somebody suicidal.

Faith is second only to jesus and him crucified. However faith begs for support. God made us with a logical mind and he isnt afraid of our questioning. Many christians fear science because they demand Jesus be taken on faith. I contend and have contended that Jesus and historical facts of the bible can be and have been proven acurate. Acurate to the degree that the Bible has NEVER been proven inacurate.

xswinnyx · 09-20-2005, 02:31 PM

AMEN :!:

bgdawg · 09-20-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xswinnyx

AMEN :!:

Look! I got a witness, now where is that pulpit.......

talleyJudy · 10-29-2005, 09:15 AM

Back to JOEBAILEK's origional post starting this thread:

Quote:

If one studies the major religions of today such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etcetera they will find more similarities than differences.

I have studied the 'major Western' religions of Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam. And Islam cannot be put in the same category as the other two.
Islam's origin may have some likeness, but it's spread/proselytization and law
is in a class all by itself. And yes, one might speak of the Crusades, but also speak of the previous 400 years prior to the Crusades; the type of takeover of the Byzantine Empire, and the 'Christian centers of theology' at Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, etc.

All Islam's 'o