Health Care reform comments - Page 6

kmfarm · 10-27-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

You'll be nice to a new member? I've apparently found the keyboard warrior of these forums. I'm not going to go back and read a 5 page thread that consists by in large of your biased opinion on health care reform.

I've been told that I'm mean. I've hurt some delicate feelings in the past and I'm turning a new leaf.

You didn't have to read 5 pages, you could have went up 8 posts on the same page.

My biased opinion? Aren't all opinions biased? Is yours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

You can continue to cheer lead for a bloated inefficient health care system that excludes millions, and rips off millions of others.

Once again, complete liberal mischarcterization. Just another talking point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I on the other hand will support any change in the system knowing that the first shot will be full of flaws, and will require additional change.

To me, that's a problem. Support anything that'll cost a couple trillion and just tweak it later?

Sorry, I don't support that. Not as an idea nor in reality.

Big Mike · 10-27-2009, 03:13 PM

Of course what I say is opinion, just as yours or anyone else's. I read some of yours a didn't care to sift through the remaining 4 pages.

"Liberal Mischaracterization," what your doing is called "deflection." You clearly stand with those unwilling to let go in fear of something new that isn't a guaranteed success. If to you - people that are forward thinking, and willing to take risk to improve a situation for everyone are the problem, that says more about you that I or anyone else ever could.

kmfarm · 10-27-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

You clearly stand with those unwilling to let go in fear of something new that isn't a guaranteed success. If to you - people that are forward thinking, and willing to take risk to improve a situation for everyone are the problem, that says more about you that I or anyone else ever could.

I hope it does say alot about me. I don't believe government is the place for risk. There's a thought.

Forward thinking, risk taking to help everyone is great, as long as it's other people's money right?

You want to help people? Write a check.

kmfarm · 11-05-2009, 10:35 AM

Well, here's some forward thinking, risk taking, from the obstructionist party of no standing on the sidelines.

Take it for what it's worth, but the CBO just scored the republican health care plan (what? you didn't know they had one?). The CBO says it will lower costs and reduce the deficit. This is at a cost of 61 billion.

That's opposed to the Democrat plan which cost 1050 billion and increases costs, deficits and everyone's premium. Oh, you didn't know premiums would go up?

Maybe, just maybe, we could slow down a little and do what's right.

CBO: Republican health plan would reduce premiums, cut deficit | Washington Examiner

Director’s Blog Blog Archive A Preliminary Analysis of a Substitute Amendment to H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act

kmfarm · 11-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Can someone tell me how this much more government helps people?

Latina · 11-10-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Gov. Jim Doyle passed an emergency rule Thursday to clarify a bill that allows young adults to receive coverage under their parents' health insurance plans until age 27.

the young adult does not need to reside in Wisconsin (nor do they have to be a student) to be under his or her parent's plan; however, the insured parent needs to be a permanent resident of Wisconsin.

Story

Both of my kids now have full coverage through my employer & it only cost me $35 more per month to re-add my daughter on medical, dental & vision, my son was still on it from before, but would have lost in come March, had this not come through, which was a huge concern for me with his asthma & all.

kmfarm · 11-10-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latina

Story

Both of my kids now have full coverage through my employer & it only cost me $35 more per month to re-add my daughter on medical, dental & vision, my son was still on it from before, but would have lost in come March, had this not come through, which was a huge concern for me with his asthma & all.

You need to find out if the company you work for is self-funded/self-insured (Most companies are). If it is, the law does not apply.

Latina · 11-10-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

You need to find out if the company you work for is self-funded/self-insured (Most companies are). If it is, the law does not apply.

No i am with an HMO through my employer & have already made the change. They said that they would have to do it by January 1st, however our company sent out a mass email to inform us & allowed the change effective immediately, last week. Done deal & i'm glad

Latina · 11-10-2009, 02:35 PM

GENERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT BENEFIT ELIGIBILITY FOR ADULT CHILDREN UP TO AGE 27

These are the pros & cons... like the parent will be taxed on the dependents premium for that insurance coverage etc...

kmfarm · 11-11-2009, 07:56 PM

In the house version of Obamacare, you can be charged with a felony and go to jail if you don't purchase insurance.

What does Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the House for those of you who don't know) say about this?

She spends a minute and a half to say "yes you should go to jail".

YouTube- Does House Speaker Nanci Pelosi Dodge Tough Question on Health Care??? You decide.

kmfarm · 11-15-2009, 10:57 AM

Thank God Obama's doing something to reduce health care costs and bring some competition to the evil insurance companies.

Doing something is better than doing nothing right? Doesn't matter if it helps or solves problems, we should just be happy they're doing something. lol

Let's get this passed and get this utopia started already. Obama has all the votes he needs without one single republican. So let's get moving already. Time's a wastin.

CMS: House bill increases health care costs - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

Report: Bill would reduce senior care-washingtonpost.com

**keith** · 11-15-2009, 07:13 PM

Hmmm, according to Ralph Nader today (I believe him) the insurance industry is spending $1.3 million a day (that we know of) to lobby Congress. Must be a few bucks in maintaining the status quo.

Regards,
Keith

kmfarm · 11-15-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

Hmmm, according to Ralph Nader today (I believe him) the insurance industry is spending $1.3 million a day (that we know of) to lobby Congress. Must be a few bucks in maintaining the status quo.

Regards,
Keith

That "maintianing the status quo" talking point is getting tiring. But whatever, use it.

You need to get your own facts. The insurance companies are lobbying everyone to get the best deal whichever way this ends up.

Some of your leftie commentators don't like the Pelosi/Obama plan because it gives insurance companies 40 million new customers. So they feel that the lobbying was done not for the "status quo", but for the "change".

Maybe check that with Ralph Nadar if you like. But you guys on the left need to decide just what it is your trying to achieve and who you're actually fighting besides yourselves.

**keith** · 11-15-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

That "maintianing the status quo" talking point is getting tiring. But whatever, use it.

Yeah, whatever. Sorry the comment tires you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

You need to get your own facts.

See, that's part of the point. Unlike hate talk radio, I want to deal with one set of facts - not get another set to suit my need to argue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

The insurance companies are lobbying everyone to get the best deal whichever way this ends up.

Some of your leftie commentators don't like the Pelosi/Obama plan because it gives insurance companies 40 million new customers. So they feel that the lobbying was done not for the "status quo", but for the "change".

"My" leftie commentators? Last time I looked, everyone here had an independent voice. No one checks with me on what to say.

Your arguments, at best and as usual, border on inciteful, divisive, dismissive and rude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Maybe check that with Ralph Nadar if you like. But you guys on the left need to decide just what it is your trying to achieve and who you're actually fighting besides yourselves.

I'm trying to achieve an intelligent conversation which I'm sorry you don't seem to recognize. That's what I read into most of the comments from the "lefties" here (i.e., the people who don't agree with you).

I don't believe I'm fighting myself, Mark. I believe I'm fighting the borderline insults and incessant ranting of an angry person - one with whom I disagree a great deal regarding both the form and substance of their argument.

Regards,
Keith

kmfarm · 11-15-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

See, that's part of the point. Unlike hate talk radio, I want to deal with one set of facts - not get another set to suit my need to argue.

Hate talk radio? I've never brought it up. You may get your facts from hate (left) radio, not me. The fact that you assume I get my opinons from talk radio is very narrow minded and telling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

"My" leftie commentators? Last time I looked, everyone here had an independent voice. No one checks with me on what to say.

Yes, the hate leftie radio commentators.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

Your arguments, at best and as usual, border on inciteful, divisive, dismissive and rude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

I believe I'm fighting the borderline insults and incessant ranting of an angry person - one with whom I disagree a great deal regarding both the form and substance of their argument.

Regards,
Keith

Now who's being dismissive and rude? And of course it's divisive because I don't agree with you. If I did, I wouldn't be divisive would I?

I think I've brought up more facts (and some opinion) than anyone else here. You don't like them? Too bad, I'll bring them up anyway. Still without talk radio.

So that talking point is tiring too. But I'm sure I'll get more.

You want to try talking about the substance of the issue instead of the person? That'd be a refreshing change from the typical liberal (oops progressive) tactic. But if you want to come after me, don't be surprised if I come back.

**keith** · 11-15-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Hate talk radio? I've never brought it up. You may get your facts from hate (left) radio, not me. The fact that you assume I get my opinons from talk radio is very narrow minded and telling.

Yes, the hate leftie radio commentators.

"Hate leftie radio"?! For example?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Now who's being dismissive and rude? And of course it's divisive because I don't agree with you. If I did, I wouldn't be divisive would I?

There's a difference between disagreeing and being disgusted with every statement of belief that doesn't match yours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

I think I've brought up more facts (and some opinion) than anyone else here. You don't like them? Too bad, I'll bring them up anyway. Still without talk radio.

You're quite right. You've brought up more "facts" than anyone; perhaps more than everyone - combined.

Most of your entries are in a monologue rather than a dialogue. I address the on-going spew of your pronouncements from time to time lest you think the frequency and volume of your arguments has anything to do with the correctness of what you say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmfarm

So that talking point is tiring too. But I'm sure I'll get more.

You want to try talking about the substance of the issue instead of the person? That'd be a refreshing change from the typical liberal (oops progressive) tactic. But if you want to come after me, don't be surprised if I come back.

The substance: Health care is broken. Too many are uninsured and far too many of those are children.

Much like Social Security began as an idea that we should provide a social safety net to save millions of people from living and dying in poverty after retirement, I believe it is right and proper to extend healthcare to the least among us. I believe it is right and proper, it is the civilized thing to do.

Such a shame that being civilized means being liberal or progressive instead of human.

~~~~~~~

I don't want to come after you so much as I want to stop you from going after everyone else, and from carrying on non-stop rants in an otherwise congenial online community. Different points of view are fine. Poison attitudes are not. Yes, that's right: I simply don't like your attitude.

Take a look back. Count the mean, the vindictive, the sarcastic, the just-plain caustic remarks. Now count the constructive criticism, the arguments as a proponent of something rather than commentary as the basher of everything. I say the scales are tipped quite poorly.

Regards,
Keith

kmfarm · 11-16-2009, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

"Hate leftie radio"?! For example?

I thought you were informed. You can start with Air America. Then Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Stephanie Miller, Al Sharpton, randi rhodes......should I go on?

You've brought up "hate radio" a few times before. I wonder why? I've never brought it up or used it as a referenece. Why do liberals fear A.M. radio?

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

Much like Social Security began as an idea that we should provide a social safety net to save millions of people from living and dying in poverty after retirement, I believe it is right and proper to extend healthcare to the least among us. I believe it is right and proper, it is the civilized thing to do.

I don't disagree. I've given plenty of my own ideas. But handing out another entitlement program costing trillions of dollars per year needs to be done right. Currently, it's not. People running around with cell phones and big screen televisions in homes they couldn't afford are now complaining they want "free" health care because it's a "civil right". Says who? Access and poor government intervention and poor regulations are the problems, not civil rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

Take a look back. Count the mean, the vindictive, the sarcastic, the just-plain caustic remarks. Now count the constructive criticism, the arguments as a proponent of something rather than commentary as the basher of everything. I say the scales are tipped quite poorly.

Regards,
Keith

All I've ever done is mirror the attitude I've been given on an individual basis. You want me to bring up some of the stuff thrown at me?

I've posted stuff on threads only to be dismissed because of "one dug up article". So I post many articles to support my position, and you say that's meaningless as well.

Gotta wonder.

kmfarm · 11-17-2009, 12:00 PM

Even the Chinese are wondering how we'll pay for this plan. They're worried about their investment in us.

James Pethokoukis Blog Archive China questions costs of U.S. healthcare reform | Blogs |

Here's one way to help pay. Cut down on screenings. Rationing is already beginning. Funny how it's starting with breast cancer screenings just after we had breast cancer awareness month. Remember all the pink ribbons? Lotta good it did huh?

Fear not ladies, I'm sure prostate cancer screening is next.

Breast exam guidelines now call for less testing-washingtonpost.com

Here's the Government agency that comes up with these new rules. Yes, they will be rules once the plan is passed. Not one oncologist in the group.

U.S. Preventive Services Task Force: About the USPSTF

And so it begins.

Hope and Change

kmfarm · 11-19-2009, 12:34 PM

Sorry folks, but this is just too easy. I'll give this to Obama, he certainly is "transparent".

Remember the big evil insurance companies that Obama was going to reign in? Remember how they're the problem with Health Care, with all the gouging and dropping of customers when they need insurance the most and not accepting people with pre-existing condtions?

Remember how the do-nothing republicans and "tea-baggers" were all in the pockets of "big insurance"?

Remember those nasty guys?

Well why did an executive with United Health Group (one of the biggest) get a nice cushy job with his wife as ambassadors to Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean?

Partial quote:

Welters, a longtime advocate for underprivileged children, and her husband, Anthony, an executive with UnitedHealth Group, generated between $200,000 and $500,000 in donations to Obama’s presidential campaign and an additional $100,000 for his Inauguration

End quote.

Hope and Change.

Barack Obama rewards big donors with plum jobs overseas - Jeanne Cummings - POLITICO.com

kmfarm · 11-23-2009, 12:45 PM

Support for the Dem's plans are plummeting. I would imagine this means we'll all be treated to another "health care town hall" or "special presidential address".

Just so it doesn't happen during Judge Judy, my wife hates that.

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

kmfarm · 11-23-2009, 02:18 PM

Another falacy exposed.

First it was proven that expanding preventative screenings doesn't save money.

Now, computerized medical records is proven a falacy too.

They're both just talking points with no basis in reality.

Jim Nash - Controversial Science – Computers Aren’t Saving Hospitals Money — Report - True/Slant

kmfarm · 11-26-2009, 07:56 AM

Another good piece by John Stossel.

RealClearPolitics - We Pay Them to Lie to Us

kmfarm · 11-28-2009, 06:14 PM

Knowing that politicians lie, how do we know the true cost of Obamacare?

We don't. But we can look at some independant analysis.

ObamaCare’s Cost Could Top $6 Trillion | Cato @ Liberty

Six Trillion dollars and we'll still have 15 million uninsured!

What's all the money for folks?

kmfarm · 12-03-2009, 06:47 AM

Classic tactic from the left-wing noise machine.

When all else fails (like facts) bring out the scare stories. Doesn't matter if it's global warming or health care, doesn't matter if there's any truth, just scare the living daylights out of people. Always seems credible when it's a Nobel winner too.

Are We Going to Let John Die?-NY Times

Problem is, it's all bunk. He gets the best health care in the world for free under the current system.

Big surprise, there's an address to send this guy money.

Several readers have asked how they can help or if there is a fund to help John. There isn’t any such fund, but with John and Esther’s permission I’m posting their mailing address: John and Esther Brodniak, 770 W Main St., Sheridan, OR 97378.

The Human Toll of our Health System - Nicholas D. Kristof Blog - NYTimes.com

Johnny Delashaw, Professor of Neurological Surgery at Oregon Health Sciences University says this:

I suspect this journalist is bending the facts because he has an agenda. The gentleman with the cavernoma is welcome to call my office and I will see him. I would ask that the writers of the New York Times write factual editorials rather than sensationalizing a story. You are not being helpful.

Another reader says:

I am surprised that Mr. Brodniak could not have surgery at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) which is the major research hospital in Portland, and I believe it accepts patients with Oregon Health Plan (OHP) insurance under CareOregon.

Another reader asks a good question:

I think the public is entitled to all the facts in this case–why didn’t the New York Times interview the neurosurgeons to asertain why surgery may or may not be the best option for this patient?

Yet another informed reader brings some facts:

This is false. The HIPAA Act of 1996, signed by Pres. Clinton, PROHIBITS precisely this type of “pre-existing condition exclusion.” John losing his job is what the law defines as a “qualifying life event,” at which point his wife could have added him to her plan within 30 days of the event WITHOUT any exclusion whatsoever.

This article is just plan wrong — NONE of this had to happen to John, without ANY “health reform.”… See More

And by the way, if this health reform passes, John will be hit with a huge tax penalty, since he can’t afford insurance. And if he can’t pay the penalty, he could go to jail.

One last set of facts:

Academic and teaching hospitals are required by law to take medicaid reimbursement as payment in full, regardless of their customary fees. This is because hospital resident physicians are paid with federal GME funding, not out of the general operating costs of the hospital. Mr Brodniak’s medicaid could be denied by private hospitals which do not have GME funded residents, but not by any of the state or academic hospitals.

A doctor’s message for Nick Kristof — and NYTimes readers point out more holes

Classic lies, myth and misinformation from the left. All agenda driven. They believe the ends justify the means, so the lies are perfectly acceptable.

kmfarm · 12-08-2009, 02:43 PM

Well, well, well.

The liberal/progressives have finally figured out Obama. They have now learned what Republicans have been saying for a while. Obama doesn't care what's in the health care bill, he just wants "something" to sign so he can bask in the glory of yet another "historic" event.

Fact is, if he doesn't care what's in it, he doesn't really care about the little people like you either.

It's kind of funny, nobody likes what Obama is doing. Not even the left wing extremeists. Not the right, not the center, nobody.

Partial quote:

"That is essentially what Rahm Emanuel has said: Just give us anything and we will declare victory," said Conyers. "Not only is it not a victory, but when it doesn't work, guess who will come at him: the same guys that were saying let's go along with anything... This is all my buddy Rahm Emanuel trying to get anything. But look the bill doesn't go into effect for three years. Many of the people that we are trying to help will be dead by then."

End quote.

Hope and Change

Conyers Rips Obama, Emanuel For 'Bowing Down' To GOP On Health Care