Latest Global Warming news

[kmfarm]

At the risk of being mediocre, I'll re-post a few of my beliefs as a reminder:

Home - Global Warming Petition Project

500 scientists refute global warming dangers

U. S. Senate report: scientists refute global warming claims

Global Warming is a hoax.

[lilly]

Originally Posted by kmfarm

At the risk of being mediocre, I'll re-post a few of my beliefs as a reminder:

Global Warming is a hoax.

Sure any one can say that global warming is right or wrong, but I'd love to see you tell us what you have extracted from the sites instead of just dissing it and then giving us sites to read. We want to hear what you believe.

[Kens Digital Media]

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Thank you for the open mind.

kmfarm, you say others should have an open mind but do you follow your own advice?

Man what happened to you lately? Before the elections you would welcome new members, start and respond to all kinds of topics but after the elections 99% of your posts are in the political section here.

[pk]

Man what happened to you lately? Before the elections you would welcome new members, start and respond to all kinds of topics but after the elections 99% of your posts are in the political section here.

Yes, agree. So...how's the grand kids? Maybe you could stop the presses on the political 'stuff' and get back to what's really important. lol Always great to hear a kid story once in awhile and the chit chat is a great place to do it in. We welcome you there anytime.

[Latina]

Originally Posted by pk

Yes, agree. So...how's the grand kids? Maybe you could stop the presses on the political 'stuff' and get back to what's really important. lol Always great to hear a kid story once in awhile and the chit chat is a great place to do it in. We welcome you there anytime.

I realize you were most likely making a joke of it, but i don't think it's fair to make that comment, when it's obvious that what's important to Mark is political stuff & getting the word (share his feelings on it) out to others. after all that is why there is a political part of the forum.

YES i agree it would be nice to see Mark join in on other parts of the forum as well, so we (those of us who don't know him as well as others) could get to see another side of him, but that's a members personal option & obviously this is his passion.

I think (just my opinion) that he wants people to challenge his beliefs & it's great to see others starting to do that. I don't join in, partially because i don't agree with the bashing of Obama posts, in which case i just dont bother reading them (can usually tell by the heading), but others (such as this one) i read & have learned from... Glad to see others (such as lilly) challenging Mark, i want to hear both sides myself.

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by lilly

Sure any one can say that global warming is right or wrong, but I'd love to see you tell us what you have extracted from the sites instead of just dissing it and then giving us sites to read. We want to hear what you believe.

O.K. my beliefs on global warming. Based on years of study of facts, not emotions. Based on the fact that I'm old enough not to have been indoctrinated by the public school system. Based on the fact that I looked for the truth behind the scare tactics of Al Gore and others. Based on the fact that Al Gore's hollywood production has been proven to be false.

Man made global warming is a hoax based on junk science. It has been blown out of proportion for financial and political gain. Now that real scientists are denouncing it, nobody wants to admit they may have been wrong.

Politicians like Al Gore and others, need a cause to advance themselves. What better cause than "saving the world". Especially when their theories can not be disproven with 100% accuracy until long after they are dead.

I know other scientists (mostly government funded) believe in man made global warming based on flawed computer models. These are the same types of models that can't predict the weather 2 days in advance.

Base on all of this, why would anyone want to fundamentally change out entire economic system based on theory and flawed science? The debate is far from over and the most compelling science disproves MMGW.

MMGW used to be something that people would debate over a couple beers or a Holiday BBQ. Now it endagers our very lifestyle.

Ask yourself this: Are you willing to pay double for your electric, double your car gas, double your heating bill, increase food prices, drive cars half the size of current ones, retrofit your house for thousands of dollars, for a theory?

Not me. And I hope to make everyone see the light.

Those are my views and I will continue to bring forth evidence based on real science, not politics or emotion.

[kmfarm]

Another example of flawed "oversold" science:

World Climate Report California Dreamin’

[pk]

I realize you were most likely making a joke of it, but i don't think it's fair to make that comment, when it's obvious that what's important to Mark is political stuff & getting the word (share his feelings on it) out to others. after all that is why there is a political part of the forum.

Well Latina, I realize that you haven't been here as long as some of us but I do remember that kmfarm has grand kids that it seemed like a long time ago he use to mention. I was not in any way making a JOKE out of my sincere invite that he could stop the presses and join us in the other forums since I was afraid after the last few weeks on here that perhaps he felt we weren't feeling as friendly towards him as we once did. Totally my thought no one else brought that to my attention either. It seems as if the posts lately have been his side, our side and I did not want him to feel as if the only place he had to post was here or he may not be welcomed. I was extending an olive branch for a break and it was in kindness that I offered to hear about his grand kids that I know he is so proud of.

kmfarm you are of course more than welcome to stay in the political forum section. Please go on with your thoughts it is great to hear all sides of any issue. Did not mean it to sound as if you should quit and get off, guess it was just in my own clumsy way was trying to show that we remember sharing other sides of you as well and still would love to hear about you in other forums too. Of course the choice is totally your's to share in whatever forum you care to do so.

Please go on with where ever or what ever makes you feel comfortable.

[lilly]

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Those are my views and I will continue to bring forth evidence based on real science, not politics or emotion.

See now that's what I love hearing. No i was not brain washed by the public school system. I do not attend a public school. I go to a college prep school, and we are taught very differently. One day they will tell us all the flaws and benefits of using coal and other fossil fuels and the next day they will do the same about renewable. I loved you sharing your side of the argument, I always love these little challenges because there is always so much more to learn about each.
The government is only playing off the whole global warming thing because they think that is keeping the problem under control. Yes this topic has the tendency to get into very heated debates and that's why the government is trying to make us believe that everything is turning around when I personally believe it is not.
I have thought long and hard with it and after having a discussion with some one with a PH.D I have began to think maybe we should let people believe its all a hoax, they will continue to use up all of our gas until there is no more and then they will have no other option if they want to continue living to use renewable energy systems.

Here is just one of my examples on why I believe that all around renewable sources such as the solar panels are better than natural gas.
Solar power does not have to go through a chemical change whereas Natural gas does.
Natural gas starts off as CH4 and 2O2. after the chemical reaction takes place turns into CO2 and 2H2O. (For those of you who may not understand the chemical equation just preformed. Natural gas starts of with a mixture of Methane and two molecules of oxygen, after the reaction takes place it gives us carbon DIOXIDE and 2 molecules of water) If the chemical reaction is perfect it will be very clean burning and wont harm us, but if the chemical reaction is imperfect it will produce Carbon Monoxide, which as everyone knows is lethal.
The good thing about Solar energy is, is the fact that you do not have to worry about chemical changes.

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by lilly

Here is just one of my examples on why I believe that all around renewable sources such as the solar panels are better than natural gas.

In my view, it's not a question of which energy resource is better, it's a question of how it's implemented into the "system".

What's better, the natural market-place based on cost and demand? Or the government via high taxes and artificial markets which enrich politicians?

There's nothing new about wind and solar. Windmill farms have been around for decades. As it makes sense to expand it "naturally" over time, the market will make it happen.

In the meantime, I believe in utilizing what we have in a sensible manner. We have, within our own borders, more oil than the mid-east. "Dry" oil wells that have been capped are filling back up.

At the same time, "green" lobbyists have tripled in size in just a couple years. That's telling.

Bottom line: I'll never convince everyone that MMGW doesn't exist. But I at least would hope that people (especially Phd's) would be smart enough to admit that the scientific community does not have a consensus on the issue and we should not destroy our entire economic system based on theory.

Here's a repost of the predictions by scientists on the first earth day. These were the experts then. This is why we need to challenge the experts now. Real science takes time. Al Gore is not a scientist.

Notice the statements about being out of gas by 2000, global starvation and global freeze.

Earth Day predictions of 1970. The reason you shouldn’t believe Earth Day predictions of 2009.

[kmfarm]

Dutch scientist Hans Schreuder explains the flaw in the computer models. He also explains the errors in the Co2 myth.

The data is there, people just have to look at it, read it, understand it. Then ask why politicians ignore it.

partial quote: after 20 years of massive international effort (the overwhelming consensus), climate change scientists have still to produce solid, verifiable evidence of the consequences of human activities. They were unable to produce any scientifically believable, numerical evidence to support their theories. The periodicity in the data and the unequivocal solar linkage were not even addressed. This is not science. The whole climate change issue is about to fall apart. Heads will roll." End quote.

200905224868 | Northern Ireland Climate Change Committee hears Evidence "No Man-Made Global Warming" | / | Energy & Environment

[kmfarm]

Washington Times exposes Washington Post bias:

EDITORIAL: Uncertain climate - Washington Times

[kmfarm]

Proof-There is no Man Made Global Warming:

Portland Civil Rights Examiner: NIPCC report states there is no anthropogenic global warming

Reference, this is a year old. Did you hear about this on the "news"? Major paper shows CO2’s effect on temperature was overstated 500-2000%

[kmfarm]

Here's what ignorant school boards and school teachers need to read before promoting Al Gore's hollywood production disguised as a documentary.

His movie is required viewing for students and sometimes parents in many schools. It's very disgusting to me that schools blindly follow this hysteria.

35 Inconvenient Truths. The errors in Al Gore’s movie

[lilly]

[quote=kmfarm;92486]Here's what ignorant school boards and school teachers need to read before promoting Al Gore's hollywood production disguised as a documentary.
QUOTE]

Actually we are not allowed to view movies during school at my school, because it is not a proper way to teach students. At my school we learn from facts on both sides of any arguments and we are allowed to decide based on facts where we choose to stand. Our teachers teach us the foundation and then students come in and help them, so no our teachers are not ignorant. Its been a long time since you have been in school so you do not know how we are taught now a days...
=[

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by lilly

Actually we are not allowed to view movies during school at my school, because it is not a proper way to teach students. At my school we learn from facts on both sides of any arguments and we are allowed to decide based on facts where we choose to stand.

Based on your age, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and consideration to your circumstance. So keep that in mind.

Based on the above statement, why do you believe in Global Warming?

I'll issue you a serious challange.

Take just this one article: 200905224868 | Northern Ireland Climate Change Committee hears Evidence "No Man-Made Global Warming" | / | Energy & Environment

Maybe this one too, it's up to you. Dont' want you spending your Holiday researching MMGW: http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portl...global-warming

Read it, study it, understand it and determine on your own if it has merit.

Now take this article to your Phd friend/mentor and let him/her do the same. Then ask for opinion from that same person.

If you get responses like, "they're just deniers", or "who are these people", or anything else that doesn't actually pertain to the actual science contained, that's a clue of bias.

If that person says, "interesting", "I didn't realize", or "that's proof of more debate needed", then ask why Congress and the President are moving full steam ahead on a climate bill that takes money out of everyone's pocket when Global Warming is only a theory with no basis in fact outside flawed computer models?

There is no scientific evidence of MMGW outside these flawed computer models. That is a fact. The true "deniers" are the ones who base their views on these models and not true science.

Why was Al Gore (proven to be a fraud) used as an "expert" in congressional hearings to shape the climate bill?

Take the challange seriously. Your generation is the one that will be paying the majority of the future bills for these government money grabs.

If you have time, go back to the start of this thread and read any of the many articles disputing MMGW.

When real science is used, not science funded by governments with the end result already determined, there is no choice but to dispute MMGW. People in general have been so brainwashed on this junk science that they think they can go outside on any given day and "feel" that it's warmer. So they say, yep, Global Warming is real and we better do something about it before all the polar bears go "ploosh".

I await the results of the challenge.

[lilly]

Originally Posted by kmfarm

"interesting", "more debate needed",

Yes I found that first one very interesting, but I could not get the second one to open. Something about it was not finished yet...
Any ways. I do not believe that global warming is so much of a hoax, yet it has just been exaggerated for our own good. If it has not been exaggerated then we would not have any one to care and try to fix it before it is too late. Sure like I have previously said that 1.4 degrees may not seem like a big difference to us but it is to our ecosystem. Our planet is very touchy and not so much adaptable as we are. All the plants and animals and even we are very touchy and if one thing goes wrong it could send us spiraling downwards forever. Eh not so cool now is it? Yes sadly though, it will be my generation that is help more or less responsible, but who is going to get the after math of our decision is going to be my generation’s kids, kids. That may sound like a long time from now but it’s not. One question I find myself asking a lot lately is who is to say that killing our self’s off is necessarily a bad thing for our earth, I mean look at how healthy the earth was a couple billion years ago, the air was clean and we had plenty full supply of natural stuff, but then man came along and decided to create things and look what happens. We have wiped out a lot of the natural beauty and made it man-made and powered and our air is disgusting. It’s pretty sad if you ask me. I think that they have exaggerated Global warming a lot because of the fact that if it wasn’t it would be out of sight out of mind and we would soon be SOL because we will realize the problem when it is way too late to fix it. For example:
The Book GO ASK ALICE is a perfect way to explain this.
She has one trip and realizes that it is fun, she goes on another trip of LSD or what not and realizes that there is a problem but does not really do anything to try and stop it, she continues until it’s getting to late and so she runs away trying to fix it but it keeps coming back, it’s like its haunting her she is constantly wanting to get high. To cut the story down when she starts to really realize that she needs to quit she tries to ignore it and she tries it one last time but that time it was too much and she dies. It’s the same story we are talking about here. Except Alice is all of mankind, the trips(drugs) are global warming and everything else we are doing wrong, and when she is running away it’s the government trying to brain wash us saying that nothing is wrong.
But maybe there is still a lot of people out there that do not want to go GREEN because they do not believe in Global warming, then go green because the earth needs you to step out of the Social Darwinism mind frame and be more of a team.
Stop using Fossil Fuels, the way we use them are destroying our planet in more ways than one, they are polluting our air and if you look back to almost all wars, if you really look at the root of the problem it is oil. Those places that do not have oil normally do not get picked on because they have nothing for us, even today’s war, the war in Iraq is over oil. Think seriously about it. What happens when we run out of oil, and we no longer can heat our houses or cook our food and stuff anymore? Then will you just shrug your shoulders and say o well guess I was wrong, let’s try and be superman and save the world before it’s too late and go to renewable energy? What if it’s too late and everyone is dead because we killed everyone off when our supply really does get so low that not everyone can use it anymore, and we all know that that’s when we will all act super barbaric, because the whole social Darwinism will kick in. (For those of you that do not know what Social Darwinism is, it basically means that only the strongest survive.)
Anyways, there will always be a debate over this, and there will be no right or wrong until it’s too late.
Here is some light reading
Global Warming Fast Facts
Global Warming Myths and Facts - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund
O and do not worry about giving me things to research. I absolutely ADORE researching and do it all the time, whenever I have free time that is. Over the summer or any other time I have a lot of free time I will do a whole mess of research or papers/ projects just because I like to=]]

P.S I will share the article with him and let you know what he thinks. Hope to hear what you think….

[lilly]

About one of your previous comments on windmill farms, this is something for you to read…ENJOY=]

essay Renewable Energy

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by lilly

I do not believe that global warming is so much of a hoax, yet it has just been exaggerated for our own good.

You're too young to realize this, but it's not for our own good. It's for the financial good of a few others.

Exaggerating theories is not good science. That's how junk science is developed. The computer models have exaggerations in them as well. So why trust or believe the results? It's a fundamental problem with the whole debate. Seperating fact from exaggerations.

Originally Posted by lilly

Our planet is very touchy and not so much adaptable as we are.

Actually, the planet is much more "adaptable" than we are.

Originally Posted by lilly

One question I find myself asking a lot lately is who is to say that killing our self’s off is necessarily a bad thing for our earth, I mean look at how healthy the earth was a couple billion years ago, the air was clean and we had plenty full supply of natural stuff, but then man came along and decided to create things and look what happens. We have wiped out a lot of the natural beauty and made it man-made and powered and our air is disgusting.

Killing ourselves off is good for the planet? I'm sorry, that's an extreme view. We kill ourselves off and who is here to care what the planet is like?

Population control is a whole other subject that we don't want to get into. But it's coming.

Originally Posted by lilly

Stop using Fossil Fuels,

This is not realistic. I prefer to stay in reality.

As I have stated before, I have no problem with any other type of energy development. I prefer though, that it's introduced via the markplace as opposed to high priced government mandates based upon bad science. Especially by the U.N.

Originally Posted by lilly

What happens when we run out of oil, and we no longer can heat our houses or cook our food and stuff anymore? Then will you just shrug your shoulders and say o well guess I was wrong, let’s try and be superman and save the world before it’s too late and go to renewable energy? What if it’s too late and everyone is dead because we killed everyone off when our supply really does get so low that not everyone can use it anymore, and we all know that that’s when we will all act super barbaric, because the whole social Darwinism will kick in.

The "what if's" can be played forever. What if the Sun exploded tommorrow? What if we're actually entering another "big ice age" (as many are predicting) because of the lack of Sun activity? Are we going to enact a new tax to control the Sun?

Originally Posted by lilly

Anyways, there will always be a debate over this, and there will be no right or wrong until it’s too late.

Exactly. There is still debate. So why are governments acting as if there isn't?.

Originally Posted by lilly

Here is some light reading
Global Warming Fast Facts
Global Warming Myths and Facts - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund

All references in those articles are from an IPCC report which has already been debunked by scientists in other articles I've posted. Many of the items stated in the articles are downright lies. Again, already covered in other posts. More exaggerations now reffered to as facts.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what's his PhD in?

[kmfarm]

Article from Canada. Another PhD disputes Global Warming:

Is man-made global warming real? | Climate Realists

His credentials: The Marshall Institute - Dr. Timothy Ball

[lilly]

[quote=kmfarm;92575]You're too young to realize this[quote]
Im am not to young to realize these things, sure I may be a few weeks shy of beind 16, but I am not an average teenager. My brain capacity is much larger than a regular teens.

[quote=kmfarm;92575]It's a fundamental problem with the whole debate. Seperating fact from exaggerations. [quote]

Exactly, and sadly who is to say that they are not doing the same to your side of the argument? Well in fact I know they are. One of my favorite sayings is information is abundant wisdom is scarce. I am not sure who said it but it's said in my school often. This quote is exactly right. Us as civilians and "regular" people do not have the "privelage" to know what is 100% fact and fiction, its just one of the many ways the government brainwashes us.


[quote=kmfarm;92575]We kill ourselves off and who is here to care what the planet is like?[quote]

The earth, thats who to care what the earth is like. Once we are gone there will still be animals, and once the whole ecosystem is back in place debating whether or not you believe in creation, evolution, or macro evolution is the way you can look at it. If you believe in evolution or maybe even macro evolution the earth will get "people" back somehow. But hey thats just my belief...

[quote=kmfarm;92575]This is not realistic. I prefer to stay in reality. [quote]
It depends on how you look at it, what is reality. We have seen very crazy things. 100's of years ago people would have said the same thing. They would have been a day we have moving pictures in a box? Come on get real...But it happened.
Let's not play the what if game then...Because you are right it could go on forever, but let's look at the facts.
One day in the future we will run out of these fuels whether we want to or not. So i believe that we should start looking for a fix now then when it is too late. I mean look at previous wars, even today's war is because we want oil. If we didn't want land or oil then there would be no need to go to war. In reality if we do not ruin the earth because we can't survive because we did not try and fix it now then we WILL ruin the earth because we will go into Social Darwinism mode and kill every one off so that there will be a few to have the oil they need. It's in human nature to act that way.


[quote=kmfarm;92575]So why are governments acting as if there isn't?.[quote]

Because it's a simple way to keep us, who the government to believe are simple minded people under control. Does it work no. But they are trying to brain wash us...Simple, they brainwash us to believe what they want us to believe. As right or wrong as it may be it's happening and we can't do anything to stop it.


I'm not to sure what it is in exactly, just remember him one day being Mr. then him becoming a DR. either way we are very proud to be able to work with him, he truly is a very smart man always coming up with questions to test both sides of any argument...

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by lilly

Because it's a simple way to keep us, who the government to believe are simple minded people under control. Does it work no. But they are trying to brain wash us...Simple, they brainwash us to believe what they want us to believe. As right or wrong as it may be it's happening and we can't do anything to stop it.

This may be a subject for a different thread, but do you think this is a good thing? What have you been taught in school in regard to American History, the founding fathers and the role of government as seen by the framers of the constitution?

There's plenty we can do about it.

[Kens Digital Media]

Originally Posted by kmfarm

Article from Canada. Another PhD disputes Global Warming:

Is man-made global warming real? | Climate Realists

His credentials: The Marshall Institute - Dr. Timothy Ball

Is this the same Tim Ball?
Richard Littlemore | Dr. Tim Ball: The Lie that Just Won't Die

From what I've read this Tim Ball is connected to Big Oil, even received money indirectly from Big Oil, source below.
mrcool - Tim Ball

[kmfarm]

Originally Posted by Kens Digital Media

Is this the same Tim Ball?
Richard Littlemore | Dr. Tim Ball: The Lie that Just Won't Die

From what I've read this Tim Ball is connected to Big Oil, even received money indirectly from Big Oil, source below.
mrcool - Tim Ball

Sure, "Big Oil" "Big Green", they all have money strewn about. That doesn't discredit his science or any (of the dozens of) others I have posted.

How about the money from GE, IBM, Duke Energy and others to the "Green" cause? Track Al Gores money, there's a scam. How about this: The Climate-Industrial Complex - WSJ.com

Does that discredit the warming side of the arguement? No, the science, or lack of science, does.

I look at the science of hundreds of different sources. Again, outside of (proven to be) flawed computer models, there is no scientific evidence of MMGW.

Are these the kind of people you want to see in the U.S.? Burping of the lambs blows roast off menu - Times Online

[kmfarm]

The lies from the IPCC (The U.N. body that "supports" global warming) is shown to be politcal and based on global economics.

Dr Willem de Lange, one of the scientist who was listed as being part of the "consensus", says it's not true: NZCPR guest

This article shows how media hype and politics distorted the global warming "facts": Mark W. Hendrickson : A Closer Look at Climate Change - Townhall.com