Important information about the Classifieds

[andy]

Here are a few things to keep in mind when you place your Classified ads:

Please be careful about who you give your contact information to.

Not everyone's intentions are as good as yours. I recently received this email:

i received a call through ATT internet relay requesting to buy my jeep...the caller gave all the marks of being a scam...unfortunately i gave him my email address before i knew about this...please give a heads up to people re: offers to buy their items from long distances without seeing them first (will send an agent, carrier etc.) esp. if they say they will buy them sight unseen, send a money transfer, MO etc...accept nothing but cash...need to warn people not to give out their phone numbers and why

If the person contacting you seems suspicious, don't give them any information about yourself!

This is the first time I've heard of an incident like this, and I would like it to be the last.

If you don't feel comfortable putting your name or email address in your ad, use theBubbler's private messaging system to communicate with potential buyers. We can ban the "bad apples" from using Private Messages, but we can't stop them from reading your phone number in your ad and calling you!

If you need an explanation of Private Messages, check the FAQ.

theBubbler can't be responsible for any communication between our Classified placers and people who contact them (see our disclaimer), but we do want theBubbler to be a safe place to buy or sell.

If you have a bad experience with people contacting you, please send us as many details about the incident as possible, so we may warn others!

[peacepipes]

I know this item has been up in discussion before, but I just had another recent experience with it this weekend. I received an email from davidkeninc@outblaze.net stating that his "client" was interested in purchasing the '91 Harley Davidson that I have for sale. I was a bit suspicious of the email from the get-go, just because it mentioned a "client"... however, I did forward the basic information that he had requested regarding the price and the bike's condition etc.
I got a reply back stating that the price was acceptible, but he would be sending me a certified cashiers check for twice the amount, which I was then supposed to deposit in my account, the balance of which was to be wired to a company in Holland that was going to be handling the shipment.
I wrote back and explained that those conditions were NOT acceptable and explained that I would need a check for the purchase amount and ONLY the purchase amount, any further delivery arrangements/payments were the responsiblity of the purchaser (or his "agent").

Well, needless to say, I have not recieved any further correspondence at this time.

I was just wondering if there is somebody that I can forward this information to in hopes of preventing some of these "scams" from happening to other people? I don't know...the FBI...or some kind of police authority?!? Any suggestions?

[andy]

Thanks for the heads up.
You could try reporting him to his email provider. I checked Outblaze's site, their "complaint" address is abuse@outblaze.net

The "tips" page at https://tips.fbi.gov/ says

While the FBI continues to encourage the public to submit information regarding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, this form may also be used to report any suspected criminal activity to the FBI.

[andy]

There have been a few more of these lately.
Please do not respond to these people. That will only encourage them.

The message usually looks like this

Name: mr thomas bill
Email: markbill2@yahoo.com

Message: hello
i saw your advert on the web and i am interested in your <item> and i will like to see the picture so that we can arrange for the payment


I am ready to pay you $1,200
If my offer is okay,kindly reply back as soon as you get this mail

THANKS.

or this

Name: CARLEY CLIFF
Email: carley_allenautos@graffiti.net

Message: Hello,
I am intrested in purchasing your <item> which price is $2,500 and i will like you to send the pics of the sled and don't worry about the shippingagent i have a shipping agent that will carter for the shippment.I have a client in U.S who is owing me $6,800. And he has promise that he will be
sending the certified bank check down on my behave,i want you Have it in mind that the remaining balance of the excess fund will be wire via money gramm to the shipping agent who is coming for the pick up.if this mode of payment is accept by you i will like you to send your Full name and address including your cell phone number in which you will receive a certified bank check drawn in U.S funds.
WHILST HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU AND YOUR IMMEDIATE RESPONSE.
CARLEY CLIFF...

These types of responses are most likely scams. Once we see a message like this, we stop that person from sending more messages, but you need to be careful about who you do business with.

[peepelei]

These are money laundering scams. My sister was involved in one last year while trying to sell her Chevy Blazer. They spoke of the same, clients, writing it over, money changing hands. In Africa, United Arab Emirates and other countries, our money is worth a lot more to them. The check they sent was a cashiers check from a USA bank, however it wasn't real. The bank cashed it, waited a week, gave my sister the money to transfer thru Western Union. WU refused it, spoke of the laundering issues. With some of the money they got from their portion for their Blazer, they bought a different car. Which they had to sell, and now still having the blazer, the vehicle has a lien on it because othe forged check, and all the havoc it created. The manager that released the check was fired.....its been nothing but hell ever since. If you are going to sell your vehicle, make sure it is local or if not local, that they bring you cash in hand. No cashiers checks, no money orders, CASH!

Becky

[jessie7]

This has been a scam for almost a year and a half in the exotic and pet animal buisness. They are becoming aware that people will no longer trust them, so now, they are acting like they are here in the US until you start asking when they would like to come see whatever it is you are selling. I would recommend that anyone selling something make sure to let them know you will not ship, or sell without meeting the person. I have a couple ads out on this site now, and get an average of 3 of these fake e-mails a week.

[andy]

Originally Posted by jessie7

I have a couple ads out on this site now, and get an average of 3 of these fake e-mails a week.

If you get responses like this through theBubbler, forward the original email to webmaster@thebubbler.com and we can stop the person from contacting anyone else.

[doni]

Newbie here.

Thanks for all the GREAT info.

I had listed one of the items I will put on her... on craigslist, both Minneapolis and Chicago. I rec'd MANY of these emails also. Most wanted to send money through ????BidPay??? or something like that. Several offered double and triple what I was asking. Some didn't even mention the item I advertised...LOL, just said they'd send $$ for "the item" to expedite.

I did report this to the scambuster at craigslist.......and to the IP. I never heard back from the IP.

I think HERE I will simply ask for PM's and local folks only. That way they're satisfied and I have cash in hand.

Blessings!

Doni

[greenwebdesign]

I run a network of free classifieds and have run into the same problem time and again. I have tried to combat it by forcing users to register an account before contacting a seller. However, many people put their email address directly into the ads not realizing that it's in their best interests to use the privacy mail until it's too late. I have researched these scams many times in frustration. They are typically called the Nigerian 419 scam (but they are world-wide now!). They are much more common than you'd think! These scammers target not only online classifieds, but newspapers and other mediums as well.

Beware of anyone offering to pay more than you are asking for the item. This variation involves sending you an international money order for a large amount of money. Then, a "shipper" or "friend" or other partner comes to collect the item and the excess cash. A month later, when the MO bounces, the scammer has already gotten away with the item and the cash. Tricky!

Other variations include using stolen credit cards to purchase items from US companies, and have them drop shipped to foreign locations. By the time the person sees the fraudulent charges and reverses them, the items are unrecoverable.

The sad truth is, there are as many different variations on these scams as there are people perpetrating them. Always trust your gut instincts. If you think that the person responding to your ad seems strange, they probably are!

Also beware of anyone who repeatedly calls you "Dear" for no apparent reason, or who talks about God excessively (I've found that many of these scammers will "Praise God" dozens of times in their messages, hoping to throw you off track and gain your trust) and beware of anyone who wants to buy your item without regard to price, color, size, etc.

Perhaps the wierdest variation of this is regarding personals and dating. These scammers are now starting to reply to personal ads and lonely people looking for friends, to convince them to wire money for them to come and visit. Often, they will talk to someone for an hour and then declare their undying love and ask for a few grand to make preparations to fly to the victim's home.

And then there is the "classic 419", where a supposed widow, child, friend, etc. of a famous general, or other important person, offers to split billions of dollars with you in return for your help in fleeing their country and their supposed enemies. This involves - you guessed it - giving the scammer your SSN, bank account number, a scan of your passport, etc. in order to to facilitate the transfer of billions of dollars to your account. There have even been cases where people have gone to meet these people and help them leave their country... only to be robbed, or even murdered.

My advice is to ignore them (replying to them will just confirm that you've got a valid email address, which they can spam, or sell to a spammer). You can also report these to the FBI, although whenever I've called them in the past, they generally say something along the lines of "thanks for telling us, but we don't have the manpower to follow up on this". But by far the best solution (if you have the time) is Scam Baiting. There are more and more websites each day that get revenge and have fun at the same time! These Scam Baiters string the scammer along in order to tie him up so that he won't have time to contact other people. Often the baiters will keep them going for weeks until the scammer finally catches on and moves on. Reading their websites, is just HILARIOUS besides. One guy gets them to take a picture holding a sign up to prove that they're who they say they are. He tells them to write things like "I Love Donkey Balls" so that they can prove that they didn't use someone else's photo. He always has a "good explaination" of why he wants them to write that particular phrase, and since your average nigerian scammer doesn't tend to speak proper english anyways, they often don't catch the nuances of how bizarre these things are that they're being asked to do.


Now, just to vent my own frustrations a bit, I'll tell you about my daily struggle with these scammers. I design websites, and I have over 600 "webmaster@" email addresses under my control, all of which receive more spam than I can count, each and every day. I receive at least 20 copies of every variation of this scam each week. I used to go through and get the IP address and headers for each message and forward them to spamcop, the FBI, etc, until I just gave up as time went on. Now, I've learned to just keep updating my spam filters to catch each new variation I find. If I still did it the old way, I'd be spending 40+ hours a week just deleting them! So, while I can completely empathize with everyone who gets these messages occasionally, I have to tell you, it could definitely be much worse!

Have a great weekend, and watch out for those 419'ers!

[doni]

Jessica......

TERRIFIC information.

I'm glad TheBubbler left me a message. I have not heard a peep from TheBubbler in ages.

You're very smart...... yea, I figured this stuff out for the most part... but some stuff I didn't know.

Would you mind if I contacted you directly at your website and ask you some questions? You'll understand why. ;-)

Thanks......... GREAT POST. I hope MANY read it.

Doni

[andy]

Originally Posted by greenwebdesign

I run a network of free classifieds and have run into the same problem time and again. I have tried to combat it by forcing users to register an account before contacting a seller.

Yeah, there's a fine line between security and making it a pain for people to use the system. We've had enough problems with people registering accounts and spamming, so I'm not sure that would help. We do ban the IP address of anyone that submits scam reponses, which has at least cut back on the repeat offenders. Each banned IP has a counter next to it, which increments every time the person tries to submit another scam response.

However, many people put their email address directly into the ads not realizing that it's in their best interests to use the privacy mail until it's too late.

Yeah, I think this is really the biggest problem. They either don't realize that the responses get sent directly to their email or just don't bother to read the warnings. Part of the purpose of this thread is to impress on people how this can affect them.

Beware of anyone offering to pay more than you are asking for the item. This variation involves sending you an international money order for a large amount of money. Then, a "shipper" or "friend" or other partner comes to collect the item and the excess cash. A month later, when the MO bounces, the scammer has already gotten away with the item and the cash. Tricky!

Other variations include using stolen credit cards to purchase items from US companies, and have them drop shipped to foreign locations. By the time the person sees the fraudulent charges and reverses them, the items are unrecoverable.

The sad truth is, there are as many different variations on these scams as there are people perpetrating them. Always trust your gut instincts. If you think that the person responding to your ad seems strange, they probably are!

This is very good advice. I believe there was a scam where people were using stolen checks in this manner too. I used to work in retail and our store experienced it.

Also beware of anyone who repeatedly calls you "Dear" for no apparent reason, or who talks about God excessively (I've found that many of these scammers will "Praise God" dozens of times in their messages, hoping to throw you off track and gain your trust) and beware of anyone who wants to buy your item without regard to price, color, size, etc.

Bizarre grammer is usually one of the biggest giveaways. I've seen the phrase "Compliments of the season" come up several times.

Thanks for posting your experiences, it's nice to know we're not the only ones dealing with this

[AlumniClub]

Originally Posted by doni

Jessica......

TERRIFIC information.

I'm glad TheBubbler left me a message. I have not heard a peep from TheBubbler in ages.


Thanks......... GREAT POST. I hope MANY read it.

Doni

Doni,
Be sure to stop back often to contribute to theBubbler.
TheBubbler it only very active daily because of our members and thier active roles in social networking.
We are a member driven community and love when members are very active within the site.
Thanks for being a member!!!!
RedRaven

[Crys]

Greenwebdesign-

I feel your pain! theBubbler.com is hosted and run by OnYourMark, LLC, a web development company, and I'm one of the developers... about 2/3 of our "webmaster@" emails go to me. I wish I had time to bait scammers! We've got company blogs, and that's one of the things I wanted to chronicle there, but it's really all I can do to keep up with protecting our members from spammers and scammers.

My favorite "bait the scammer" site: http://www.geocities.com/steerp1ke/David_Ehi.html. All hail Cthulhu! :lol:

and http://zone-h.org/en/spam.

Members will find the second link informative. It contains a lot of examples of what to watch out for.

[greenwebdesign]

To Doni: Sure, feel free to contact me. If you go to my main site, www.greenwebdesign.com, there are several contact methods there.

To Andy: You hit the nail right on the head! There is definitely a file line between security, and making it a big 'ol headache for the users. And similar to what you mentioned, I've also had many people register for an account just to spam members. Luckily I've got several people watching the ads all day so we're pretty quick to catch these people and kick/ban them before they bother too many members, but it seems like a neverending battle nonetheless.

I've also tried using .htaccess files to ban various IP address ranges, but unfortunately, alot of these scammers are in countries that use Satellite to connect to the internet, and banning Sattelite IP's means you also ban a good portion of the US as well. I've tried bad word filters of course, but they tend to block legitimate items as well, which is a whole other hassle.

I have a feeling that no matter how advanced the internet gets, this will always be a problem to some degree. It