Speaking strictly about marijuana, do you believe it should be legalized in Wisconsin? If so, should it be legalized for general use or medical use only?
No less than Abraham Lincoln had this to say:
"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany)
From former President Jimmy Carter:
"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marihuana."
Bill Clinton wouldn't admit to inhaling but:
"I inhaled frequently. That was the point." - Barack Obama, U.S. President
"The war on drugs has been an utter failure. We need to rethink and decriminalize our nation's marijuana laws." -Barack Obama, January 2004
Even brainy people see some value in legalizing marijuana:
"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." - Albert Einstein quote on Hemp
"The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world." - Carl Sagan, renown scientist, astronomer, astrochemist, author and TV host
Aside from the psychological, therapeutic, and medicinal effects of marijuana as a "drug", hemp has other uses:
Hemp was the first "billion dollar" cash crop. Even industrialist Henry Ford saw it's value:
"Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?" - Henry Ford, whose first Model-T was constructed from hemp fibers and built to run on hemp gasoline
You just can't argue with the founding fathers:
"Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country."
- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President
"Make the most you can of the Indian Hemp seed and sow it everywhere."
- George Washington, U.S. President
"We shall, by and by, want a world of hemp more for our own consumption."
- John Adams, U.S. President
YES. Decriminalize it in all States! Whatever your thoughts are on the plant-drug cannabis.....do you realize how much tax-payer money is spent housing prisoners who are convicted of simple possession, and some for "resale" in small quanties? Housed right next to murderers? I personally know of one guy, who smoked alot and occasionally sold a few bags to friends. (he's non-violent, as most true "pot-smokers" are, hates guns, etc) Would never hurt a fly. Got popped for a 2nd offense, the 1st was a fine for possession, 2nd was possession w/intent (4 oz), in TN. He is in his 3rd year of a 5-7 yr. sentence. His cell mate is a rapist. Got 3-5 for raping a female cousin. Been there for 2years, gets out before the "pot-smoker". There's something wrong with this picture.
I'm not talking dealers who sell 25-50# or more, use guns, scary stuff........
We PAY for prisoners like the above. That particular person is a "friend of a friend", I only met him once. He lost his job as a NURSE.
So, I can really go on a rant when it comes to legalizing Marijuana.
For the detractors:
For the record, I am not a pot-head. I did smoke it ALOT in my high school years, occasionally throughout my 20's.......and a couple times when going through Chemo 12 years ago, and at the present time, my Dr. said I should try for some more "complications" I am having being a Stage IV Breast Cancer patient. So I cannot say I will NEVER smoke it again.
MEDICAL MARIJAUNA: A state can legalize it but the Feds can still arrest you. Get the DEA & FEDS out of State's business. Provide stricker guidelines if you must for the Drs. writing te "prescriptions" for it, but again MORE tax-payer money spent on busting up "Medical Marijuana Boutiques" (I love to use that term boutique) and Gramnda Rose who uses it for her Glaucoma.
Legalize it for personal use. Regulate it, make sure what is sold is free of pesticides (75%of all pot sold in the US is grown with dangerous chemicals), sell it like they do the same as liquor and cigarettes. Must be over 21 and tax the heck out it.
For detractors:
For the majority of ppl. who smoke pot, it does not lead to HARD drugs, they may gain a little weight (yum! brownies!) or be a tad forgetful (where did I stash my weed?) but in general, most who smoke it do so in their leisure time, just as "Samantha & Darren" mixed up a martini or 2 at the end of a long day.
Same as alcohol.....no tolerence for driving under the influence.
There, I'm done now.
__________________
.....just another day in Paradise
I agree, way too much tax $ is spent housing simple smokers & small time sellers (selling enough to support your own habit or whatever).
I read that Obama (an admitted ex pot head) will pass a bill that wont allow those approved to smoke (for medical reasons) to be fined or anything for having it... again, GO OBAMA!
I also agree, sell it like alcohol & make a killing on taxes! So what if i get the munchies or cotton mouth, how is that worse than the effects of alcohol? Drinking and driving is a HUGE problem in the country... A good comedy, some milk duds, a big glass of ice water & a blunt, you wont have the energy to commit any crime
They cant rid the world of weed, plain & simple. It just cost more to NOT legalize it. In Dane county you have to possess more than 27 grams to get anything more than a ticket. so as long as you always stay just below an ounce you wont be arrested... not good enough, but much better than other parts of the state... personally i say legalize it everywhere.
Alcohol kills people everyday, weed is proven to not be physiologically or psychologically addicting... I know, cuz i was forced to write a 7 page essay on the effects of smoking weed... dont ask LOL
Then you never met some of my former coworkers who spent every break in their cars smoking pot. I thought it was a bunch of crap because an employee would get sent home if they had alcohol on their breath and we certainly weren't allowed to have a liquid lunch. But, yet even though the supervisors knew what was going on in the parking lot, they never did anything about it. One of the people smoking pot in the parking lot was a lead person too. We had drug testing at our company and we even had a nurse's station that did the drug testing for other companies as well. That's why I found it so odd that they let this slide. When asked about it by other employees, the supervisor's answer would be that they didn't want to lose too many employees. Lame.
Then you never met some of my former coworkers who spent every break in their cars smoking pot. I thought it was a bunch of crap because an employee would get sent home if they had alcohol on their breath and we certainly weren't allowed to have a liquid lunch. But, yet even though the supervisors knew what was going on in the parking lot, they never did anything about it. One of the people smoking pot in the parking lot was a lead person too. We had drug testing at our company and we even had a nurse's station that did the drug testing for other companies as well. That's why I found it so odd that they let this slide. When asked about it by other employees, the supervisor's answer would be that they didn't want to lose too many employees. Lame.
That's the companies fault 100%
The state of wi does not drug test their state workers, this is a fact... their drug policy reads "alcohol & drugs of any kind not allowed on work property" no tests or anything, thats also so they dont lose too many employees obviously. I know way too many state workers, my sister included, of all i know only my sister does not get high... why make it illegal if they arent saying not to use, just dont bring it to work?
someone needs to do the research i did & come to realize this is NOTHING compared to legal alcohol.
The same thing at my old job, but then we had a few people who drank on their break as well. Drinkers were let go, smokers were not. Smoke after work, not during it IMO.
I think legalizing marijuana would go a long way toward eliminating crime related to the drug and save millions by emptying a significant portion of our prisons. I don't personally feel it's a gateway drug. People who will do any kind of drugs don't need marijuana as an excuse. They'd do it anyway.
Of course, marijuana does have some drawbacks.. it can in the long term cause anxirty, depression, etc. in some people. Today's marijuana is not the marijuana of 20-30 years ago.. it's alot stronger generally.
But alcohol and tobacco in my opinion are much more damaging to the individual and socirty as a whole.
Hemp as an industrial crop should definitely be allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Baboon
Then you never met some of my former coworkers who spent every break in their cars smoking pot. I thought it was a bunch of crap because an employee would get sent home if they had alcohol on their breath and we certainly weren't allowed to have a liquid lunch. But, yet even though the supervisors knew what was going on in the parking lot, they never did anything about it. One of the people smoking pot in the parking lot was a lead person too. We had drug testing at our company and we even had a nurse's station that did the drug testing for other companies as well. That's why I found it so odd that they let this slide. When asked about it by other employees, the supervisor's answer would be that they didn't want to lose too many employees. Lame.
Amazing. So many founding fathers...no wonder they were so enlightened! Abraham Lincoln. President Obama. Albert Einstein. Carl Sagan. That's heavy-duty brainpower across the board!
Lots of articles and threads across the Net lately touting marijuana legalization and taxation as a way of not only cutting down on crime but also alleviating national debt. Makes sense to me..
Our friends South of the Border are calling for legalization as well, also to alleviate crime from the illicit marijuana trade.
I hope Obama considers legalization rather than simple decriminalization..
Famously, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved the United States banking system during the first seven days of his first term.
And what did he do on the eighth day? "I think this would be a good time for beer," he said.
Congress had already repealed Prohibition, pending ratification from the states. But the people needed a lift, and legalizing beer would create a million jobs. And lo, booze was back. Two days after the bill passed, Milwaukee brewers hired six hundred people and paid their first $10 million in taxes. Soon the auto industry was tooling up the first $12 million worth of delivery trucks, and brewers were pouring tens of millions into new plants.
Famously, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved the United States banking system during the first seven days of his first term.
And what did he do on the eighth day? "I think this would be a good time for beer," he said.
Congress had already repealed Prohibition, pending ratification from the states. But the people needed a lift, and legalizing beer would create a million jobs. And lo, booze was back. Two days after the bill passed, Milwaukee brewers hired six hundred people and paid their first $10 million in taxes. Soon the auto industry was tooling up the first $12 million worth of delivery trucks, and brewers were pouring tens of millions into new plants.
I say no, but probably for a reason not many of heard before.
It's interesting that the subject of legalizing marijuana still persists at the same time that smokers are being outcasts as the dredge of society. Cigarette smokers supposedly cause almost every major and minor illness based on first hand, second hand, and even third hand smoke. We spend billions of dollars "educating" and convincing people of the evil of smoking. We attack tobacco exec's as Satans in suits. So if we legalize weed, will we now spend billions more convincing folks of it's evil? Will we ostresize weed smokers to parking lots and smoke zones in the name of "saving children"? Who will the new big weed growers be that could be sued by the State to recover health care costs of the "victims" of smoking weed.
It's an interesting ironic debate.
As far as the jail situation, look at the law enforcement and jail space taken up by alcohol abuse. Not to mention all the effects on society like abuse on women. So alcohol use is also going through it's own issues. Legalizing weed won't really free up jail space in the end.
As far as the quotes pulled up from past leaders, don't forget what happened to China with opium. Everyone there, leaders included, thought it was wonderful as well.
BTW, Hemp and it's uses are not the same as smoking weed.
I know it's an old arguement, but why not legalize cocaine, crystal meth, heroin, etc, think of all that potential tax revenue. Think of all that jail space freed up.
__________________ There is precedent for the mainstream media being megaphones for Democratic-manufactured hysteria. George Will
Today, there is a name for the political doctrine that rejoices in scarcity of everything except government. The name is environmentalism. George Will
I know it's an old arguement, but why not legalize cocaine, crystal meth, heroin, etc, think of all that potential tax revenue. Think of all that jail space freed up.
Do some research on weed & the other drugs you mentioned above... you will answer your own question.
The question was fececious. I don't need to do research. The point was, you have to draw a line somewhere. Right now that line is at marijuana. I'm simply stating another point of view. Taxes and jail space are, to me, a weak arguement for it.
__________________ There is precedent for the mainstream media being megaphones for Democratic-manufactured hysteria. George Will
Today, there is a name for the political doctrine that rejoices in scarcity of everything except government. The name is environmentalism. George Will
The question was fececious. I don't need to do research. The point was, you have to draw a line somewhere. Right now that line is at marijuana. I'm simply stating another point of view. Taxes and jail space are, to me, a weak arguement for it.
Personally i think it's a good argument considering the economy & where it stands. We waste LOTS of tax dollars housing petty criminals, such as weed smokers... my only point was doing the research you would see the difference not only in comparison to other drugs (which are actually addicting, which weed is not) and even alcohol... can't compare something that is NOT addicting & has not proven to cause criminal acts (other than purchase & selling) to those who have been proven of the opposite.
Not debating with you really... we are all entitled to our opinions, i just feel those who make such comparisons (officials included) need to do their homework.
Personally i think it's a good argument considering the economy & where it stands. We waste LOTS of tax dollars housing petty criminals, such as weed smokers... my only point was doing the research you would see the difference not only in comparison to other drugs (which are actually addicting, which weed is not) and even alcohol... can't compare something that is NOT addicting & has not proven to cause criminal acts (other than purchase & selling) to those who have been proven of the opposite.
Not debating with you really... we are all entitled to our opinions, i just feel those who make such comparisons (officials included) need to do their homework.
Fair enough.
My underlying point however is what's being missed. To me, it's ironic how cig's and booze are being deamonized and blamed for most social and health issues while at the same time we (society) are argueing to legalize a substance that has much the same use and effect.
I know I'm not clear on my points sometimes, but I like to bring up other views and (hopefully) make some people think things through in a more big picture way.
The addiction viewpoint can also be debated. When I was young, I did my share of illegal substance abuse. Especially the "addictive" stuff. And I was in it deep. I should have spent time in jail. The day I decided to stop (yes it was a decision I made one day), I quit, cold turkey, never went back. No programs, no intervention, no halfway house, no government aid. So to me, and me alone, the measure of addictiveness is directly related to how much a person wants to quit.
But that's another whole topic that is off of what this thread is about. I've probably scewed my original point again.
__________________ There is precedent for the mainstream media being megaphones for Democratic-manufactured hysteria. George Will
Today, there is a name for the political doctrine that rejoices in scarcity of everything except government. The name is environmentalism. George Will
My underlying point however is what's being missed. To me, it's ironic how cig's and booze are being deamonized and blamed for most social and health issues while at the same time we (society) are argueing to legalize a substance that has much the same use and effect.
I know I'm not clear on my points sometimes, but I like to bring up other views and (hopefully) make some people think things through in a more big picture way.
The addiction viewpoint can also be debated. When I was young, I did my share of illegal substance abuse. Especially the "addictive" stuff. And I was in it deep. I should have spent time in jail. The day I decided to stop (yes it was a decision I made one day), I quit, cold turkey, never went back. No programs, no intervention, no halfway house, no government aid. So to me, and me alone, the measure of addictiveness is directly related to how much a person wants to quit.
But that's another whole topic that is off of what this thread is about. I've probably scewed my original point again.
I can relate to your story and should have probably shared a jail cell with you back in the day lol
NEW YORK — For the first time in U.S. history, more than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report documenting America's rank as the world's No. 1 incarcerator. It urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer low-risk offenders behind bars.
Using state-by-state data, the report says 2,319,258 Americans were in jail or prison at the start of 2008 _ one out of every 99.1 adults. Whether per capita or in raw numbers, it's more than any other nation.
The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher education spending, the report said.
The steadily growing inmate population "is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime," the report said.
Decriminalizing Pot Will Reduce Prison Population, Have No Adverse Impact On Public Safety, Study Says
November 12, 2004
Washington, DC: Decriminalizing so-called ‘victimless’ crimes, particularly those related to drug use, can reduce the US prison population without adversely affecting public safety, according to the findings of a study published this week by the JFA Institute, a Washington, DC criminal-justice think tank.
“According to the US Department of Justice, approximately 30-40 percent of all current prison admissions involve crimes that have no direct or obvious victim other than the perpetrator,” the report finds. “The drug category constitutes the largest offense category, with 31 percent of all prison admissions resulting from such crimes.”
Previous data released last year by the Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates that 12.7 percent of state inmates and 12.4 percent of federal inmates incarcerated for drug violations are serving time for marijuana offenses.
More at http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7434
Drug War Disproportionately Targets Minor Marijuana Offenders, Study Says
May 5, 2005 - Washington, DC, USA
Washington, DC: Low level marijuana offenders are disproportionately targeted by law enforcement, comprising more than 80 percent of the growth in drug arrests since 1990, according to a report released this week by the Sentencing Project in Washington, DC.
"Law enforcement has focused disproportionately on low level possession charges as a result of the nation's lack of a thoughtful strategy about how best to address the consequences of marijuana use," the report concluded. "Consequently, police spend a significant amount of time arresting marijuana users, many of whom do not merit being charged in court. This diverts efforts away from more significant criminal activity while having no appreciable impact on marijuana cost, availability, or use."
Marijuana arrests now constitute nearly half of all drug arrests, the report found. Since 1990, marijuana arrests have increased by 113 percent, while overall arrests decreased 3 percent.
In total, approximately 7.2 million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges since 1990. However, on average, only 1 of every 18 marijuana arrests results in some type of felony sentence, the report found.
Special Release: Marijuana Arrests For Year 2001 Second Highest Ever Despite Feds' War On Terror, FBI Report Reveals
Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 723,627 persons for marijuana violations in 2001, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the second highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprises nearly half of all drug arrests in the United States.
"These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said Keith Stroup, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "In fact, the war on drugs is largely a war on pot smokers. This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that should be dedicated toward combating serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."
Of those charged with marijuana violations, 88.6 percent - some 641,108 Americans - were charged with possession only. The remaining 82,518 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses - even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.
The total number of marijuana arrests far exceeds the total number of arrests for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.
Since 1992, approximately six million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges, a greater number than the entire populations of Alaska, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming combined. Annual marijuana arrests have more than doubled in that time.
"It's time we stopped arresting adults who use marijuana responsibly," says Stroup.
YEAR MARIJUANA ARRESTS
2001 723,627
2000 734,498
1999 704,812
1998 682,885
1997 695,200
1996 641,642
1995 588,963
1994 499,122
1993 380,689
1992 342,314
More at http://skeptically.org/recdrugs/id8.html
Wisconsin state laws on pot are terribly regressive. Wisconsin - NORML
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Should Marijuana Be Legalized In Wisconsin?
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