Cat has kittens three days ago, can I move them?

[bojay]

I've never had kittens before. Right now they are in a box in the laundry room and I want to move them to a bathroom located in another area of the house.

It hasn't been an easy time for my cat, she had 7 kittens, 4 died at birth and another one just died yesterday (for unknown reasons). I don't want to jeopardize the remaining two but really need to get some laundry done.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[pk]

I've never had kittens before. Right now they are in a box in the laundry room and I want to move them to a bathroom located in another area of the house.

It hasn't been an easy time for my cat, she had 7 kittens, 4 died at birth and another one just died yesterday (for unknown reasons). I don't want to jeopardize the remaining two but really need to get some laundry done.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

First of all I am sorry to hear that your mommy cat lost some of her babies.

Now...I think a little bit more info is needed. Is your cat a new mommy too? Meaning, has she ever had a litter prior to this one? How long have you had your cat? Have you established a good TRUSTING relationship with her? Is she mainly a 'indoor' cat?

If your cat trusts you I would think you could start off by petting her while she is with her kittens. Slowly start to pet the kittens. Work up to picking up the kittens for just a few minutes at a time and watch how your mother cat reacts.

Her kittens need interaction with people as early as possible so they will trust people when they get older. And many trusting cats welcome their owners to come and 'take care' of their kittens so they can leave for a few minutes to go 'potty' or take a break. Also, most trusting new mommies love to show off their babies and yours may like to do this to and not care if you quietly pet them.

When you do go to move them try to take the blanket they were laying on with them so they have the 'scent' and feel more comfortable in their new space. Rather then picking them up and carrying them to the new space I would bring the box into the room and put their blanket in the box and let them stay in this box for a while in the laundry room and then carry the box and kittens to the space you want them to be.

If you are worried about the trust your cat has then I would not move them until their eyes are open. Or at least for a good week. Many cats if they feel threatened will pick their young up and move them somewhere else and next time could be in a place that you can't get to them. This is not good since then the kittens will not get the interaction they need from people.

I hope I am not giving you the wrong answers. Hopefully Carol (carolscrittercare) or one of our other members that work with animals will come on and give their thoughts.

Good luck and let us know how the babies are doing.

[bojay]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Yes this was my cats first litter. Long story short, she was a kitten we rescued late last summer and had a lot of health problems along the way that needed treatments that kept us from getting her spayed timely. Anyway, I didn't think she was old enough to get preggers, but I'm sure you've all heard that before.

She is an indoor outdoor cat. I had to help her deliver some of her kittens as they got stuck feet first and died before they were born. It took her 12 hours (all night) to deliver them all. It wasn't fun. Now she's doing well and she purrs everytime I come to see her with her surviving kittens. Anyway, so yea, she trusts me a lot.

I was thinking about transferring her and the kittens to the upstairs bathroom, giving them a bigger nesting box and shutting the door for awhile and keep an eye on her for a couple of days to see if she goes back on her own. I haven't been leaving her outdoors unattended....she's still pretty fragile.

I am going to get her spayed as soon as she's done with this.

I think I may know carolscrittercare from another message board.....(mwt.net).

Wish me luck! Thanks again!

[CarolsCritterCare]

It is fine to move them. Get them to a quiet, warm place. Even though it's warm outside they need to be kept warm with no draft. Sometimes a little heating pad is needed. But if you do this you need to make sure they can get on and off the heating pad and not cook themselves.

I use heating buttons. They are microwaveable and last for 8 hours. I tuck them under a blanket and make the area warm, but also it allows areas around the button to stay room temp.

Feline panleukopenia is rampid this year. Is the mama current on her vaccinations? Not that you could vaccinate now anyhow, just curious.


The babies that passed probably passed from lack of oxygen being stuck in the birth canal. Give mama lots of high protein foods right now.

Nursing kittens are very delicate, so avoid unnecessary handling.
Caution children not to pick up the baby cats. During the first ten
days of life, the physical activities of the new-born kittens are very limited.

They cannot see or hear; their legs are too weak to support their bodies and they must get around by crawling on their abdomens with a swimming motion.

Baby cats will cry when they are hungry and sometimes stray from the warmth of their mother's body. Provide some barricade to prevent the kittens from getting too far from the mother.

Watch the kittens closely for the first week to make certain they are getting enough to eat. The mother's rear breasts contain the most milk and the more vigorous kittens will monopolise them. Excessive leanness weakness and constant crying are signs that a kitten is not getting enough milk. Such kittens quickly become dehydrated. You can check for dehydration
by pinching the skin at the back of the kittens neck with your thumb and forefinger and quickly releasing it. If the kitten is dehydrated, the skin will not snap back to its former position, but will remain pinched.

In spite of good prenatal care the mother may not have enough milk to feed all her kittens, especially when the litter is very large. Occasionally a mother cat dies while the kittens are still nursing. If either of these situations arises, you will have to bottle-feed the kittens. I must stress that this is rare when the mother cat passes away.

[pk]

This web page:

Newborn Kittens

has some interesting information on it. Mostly what Carol mentioned but gives you a week to week detail of a newborn/kitten's development too.

[Woodman9]

Originally Posted by pk

Her kittens need interaction with people as early as possible so they will trust people when they get older. And many trusting cats welcome their owners to come and 'take care' of their kittens so they can leave for a few minutes to go 'potty' or take a break. Also, most trusting new mommies love to show off their babies and yours may like to do this to and not care if you quietly pet them.

There is no reason to interact with the newborns what so ever. In fact, about the only contact you should have after moving them is too occasionally nudge them to nurse if it appears neccessary. You have more than enough time to interact when they are 3-4 weeks old and beyond.

Originally Posted by pk

When you do go to move them try to take the blanket they were laying on with them so they have the 'scent' and feel more comfortable in their new space. Rather then picking them up and carrying them to the new space I would bring the box into the room and put their blanket in the box and let them stay in this box for a while in the laundry room and then carry the box and kittens to the space you want them to be.

You're making this too complicated. Just put them in a box with the blanket & move them. They should be moved to a warm restricted area where the mother can't leave unless you allow it. This way her focus is on her newborns only. She should also have a litter box, food, & water in this restricted area. Spare bedroom ?

Originally Posted by pk

If you are worried about the trust your cat has then I would not move them until their eyes are open. Or at least for a good week. Many cats if they feel threatened will pick their young up and move them somewhere else and next time could be in a place that you can't get to them. This is not good since then the kittens will not get the interaction they need from people.:

Again with the interaction. They'll get more than enough interaction with humans when they try to crawl up your legs at 5-6 weeks old. The first 10-14 days are critical to their survival. There's no reason to allow the mother outside anymore. You need her to focus on her two remaining kittens. Keep her in the restricted area with a litter box, food & water. She'll adjust to the confinement quickly. If she appears to resist the confinement, so what. Keep her there.

If the two remaining kittens make it to 8-10 days old, their eyes should begin to open. Many kittens are either born with eye infections or pick up eye infections even before their eyes open. If it appears that their eyes are starting to open but after a couple days or so they are not fully open you need to intervene. Go to a pet store, Fleet Farm or TSC & buy a small tube of "Terramycin" ointment. Follow directions.

I presently have a 'feral' mother & her 4 kittens that are now about 8 weeks old. They are all laying in a big pile in the middle of my living room at this moment. They are the 3rd mother/litter event in the last two years. I don't even remember how many in the last ten years.

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[pk]

Again with the interaction.

Kittens need early repetitive human contact to become socialized and great family pets that are loving and tame. I have gone through many websites since reading your 'leave them alone approach' to see what others have said on this subject. I will say that most articles state to carefully pick up or touch newborns for no more than 2 minutes several times a day.

Many state that even though it is important to touch from the beginning that at 2 weeks to become more involved in order for kittens to grow properly into loving cats. If you don't interact with kittens after a period of a week or so and teach them what human contact is about you stand the chance to have shy reserved cats that can become weary of people they don't know.

I wasn't implying that you should pick the newborn kittens up and play with them but merely saying that careful introduction of human contact from the start with the mother present and allowing it was a good idea.

You're making this too complicated.

Taking precautions so that the mother and babies feel comfortable is never being too complicated. It's being caring and respectful of the mother's feelings. Many mothers will not like their kittens just picked up and moved into a strange box they did not prepare. Even if you close them up in another room where the mother can't remove the kittens, she still could harbor resentment and turn on her babies. Mother cats do strange things at times. Again, it is always better to be on the safe and careful side when dealing with a new mother and small babies. Doesn't hurt to be careful.

Just sharing ideas that I have read and also experiences that I have had with many, many litters of kittens I have helped 'raise' through out the years.

pk

[Woodman9]

Originally Posted by pk

Taking precautions so that the mother and babies feel comfortable is never being too complicated. It's being caring and respectful of the mother's feelings. Many mothers will not like their kittens just picked up and moved into a strange box they did not prepare. Even if you close them up in another room where the mother can't remove the kittens, she still could harbor resentment and turn on her babies. Mother cats do strange things at times. Again, it is always better to be on the safe and careful side when dealing with a new mother and small babies. Doesn't hurt to be careful.
pk

I'm not really arguing your points. All have merit in ideal situations.

However, this is a situation where 5 out of seven kittens have already met their demise. The focus needs to be on the survival of the remaining two. You can worry all you want about their 'future' psychological damage if not handled daily. However, if the remaining two bite the dust, there is no future. The mother needs to be with the two remaining kittens in order to increase their survival chances. The mother not only provides nourishment but also another very critical function. The mother cat will stimulate her kitten's elimination by licking the anus and genital area with her rough tongue. It is imperative that a kitten under 10 days old have this stimulation. Their wastes need to be expelled in order to survive.

To your other points: I have never seen in my entire life a mother cat turn on her kittens. I, too, have been involved with "many, many" experiences with litters. Does it happen? The exceptions to the rule always exist somewhere.

Originally Posted by pk

Kittens need early repetitive human contact to become socialized and great family pets that are loving and tame.

This is 'good copy' by all the 'cat experts' on the web. Unfortunately, it is 99% myth. I've taken dozens of 'feral' cats & have successfully turned them into loving & tame house cats.
Some care, kindness, food & fixing can turn any cat into a desirable pet regardless of age.

Let the mother cat do what she instinctively does best. Once the kittens reach about two weeks & are obviously growing, then you can do the human intervention routine if you can't resist. It's only arrogance on the part of humans that they are the key to a well-adjusted pet. Look around, when man intervenes too much in nature, nature suffers.

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[pk]

This is 'good copy' by all the 'cat experts' on the web. Unfortunately, it is 99% myth.

Wow, I'm so glad we have you here to let us know that 99 percent of what we read about this on the web from all the cat experts is myth.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.....bojay, please let us know how your little ones are doing. I'm sure between your caring and the mommy cat they will grow up to be fine.

pk

[CarolsCritterCare]

Originally Posted by Woodman9

There is no reason to interact with the newborns what so ever. In fact, about the only contact you should have after moving them is too occasionally nudge them to nurse if it appears neccessary. You have more than enough time to interact when they are 3-4 weeks old and beyond.
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I thought PK's explainations were great. I dont think she was making it too complicated, but just explaining in depth to someone new asking questions. Too much information is better then no information at all.

By all means she didn't imply to start playing with these babies, but how to safely move them and care for them. Working rescue and placement she was only explaining how to socialize. Not meaning start playing with them now, just a little interaction.

A well socialized kitty is what we all want in the end so it can find a great forever home.

[CarolsCritterCare]

Sorry, forgot to ask...how are the kitten today? Give us an update when you can.

[CarolsCritterCare]

The more human contact the better—the sooner the better.
Interact with kittens as soon as possible. Studies show that a litter of kittens born in a location inaccessible to humans will, as early as two to three weeks, hiss at humans. A litter of kittens from the same mother, if handled daily, will not react fearfully. Some research suggests that handling kittens each day during the first month of their lives may improve their learning ability.

Kittens tend to react more readily to humans when the mother cat is present. The belief is that she does not send alarming signals to her kittens and her presence reassures them.

The February 1993 Animal Health Newsletter published by the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine reports a study indicating that handling kittens very early in life accelerates their development. Siamese kittens handled 20 minutes a each day during their first 30 days of life opened their eyes earlier and emerged from their nesting box earlier than littermates not handled that way.

Playtime isn't just fun for you—it's important for your pet's development.
Recognize the importance of play as it helps introduce young kittens to their environment. During this critical play period when kittens are four to eight weeks of age, socialization to humans is extremely important. Frequent handling and petting of the young kitten can make it more responsive to his owner when he becomes an adult cat.

Introducing a young kitten to many people is important in socializing kittens to humans. This seems to lessen their fear of strangers as adult cats. Kittens should also be introduced to children and children should be shown how to pet them. A kitten not socialized with children may reject them after it has matured.

[pk]

I thought PK's explainations were great.

thank you!

[bojay]

Hi Everyone! I love how active this forum is. Good job Bubbler-dudes! Forums are hard to get this good!

Well, I moved the kittens to the bathroom upstairs and that worked out just fine. Now the mom has moved them into my walk-in closet, and I'm fine with that too. Just wanted to keep them away from all the activity of the dogs and kids and guests.

However, I'm worried about one of the kittens and I doubt it will make it. If it does make it, I think it will be premanently disabled. Something is wrong with it's front leg and it's swollen up quite a bit. It's not even half the size of the healthy kitten. Could this have happened since the mother had such a hard labor? I know this doesn't go with the topic and I probably should just start a new one...but since you've all been so nice to offer advice so far....I'm going to take pictures of what I'm talking about and offer links to it later.

My vet is pregnant and due any minute. I know she's help me out in this matter but I haven't gotten a call back yet. Money is extremely tight. We are living paycheck to paycheck and I can't afford to go through all the expense at this time. I am unsure how to proceed....saving this kitten might not be in the best interest of anyone, I know that sounds harsh. But what do I do?

The other surviving kitten is doing great. I'll get some pictures in the next hour or so and post them up. Thanks so much everyone!

[gschubert]

Hi Bojay,

Two of our cats had litters recently and we, and then the moms, moved them several times. We had them in boxes and moved one box on to the front porch, and the other out into a shed.

The mom on the porch kept the kittens there for several days, then moved them under the porch. She now has them in the barn under a chicken brooder.

The mom in the shed kept her kittens in the box for several days, then moved them to a corner of the shed, out in the open. She kept them there for about two weeks, and we just moved them back into the house as I need the mom to hunt mice (they're coming in early this year). This mom had moved her babies around the house several times before we took them out to the shed.

So they know what to to do.

Best wishes...........

[pk]

However, I'm worried about one of the kittens and I doubt it will make it. If it does make it, I think it will be permanently disabled. Something is wrong with it's front leg and it's swollen up quite a bit. It's not even half the size of the healthy kitten. Could this have happened since the mother had such a hard labor? I know this doesn't go with the topic and I probably should just start a new one...but since you've all been so nice to offer advice so far....I'm going to take pictures of what I'm talking about and offer links to it later.

My vet is pregnant and due any minute. I know she's help me out in this matter but I haven't gotten a call back yet. Money is extremely tight. We are living paycheck to paycheck and I can't afford to go through all the expense at this time. I am unsure how to proceed....saving this kitten might not be in the best interest of anyone, I know that sounds harsh. But what do I do?

If your vet is unable to work right now, I'm sure she must have a vet that is taking in some of her work. Call again or call someone else. The kitten could be in pain and suffering. The leg could be broken, or possible circulation problem for starters. I am not a vet so I'm only guessing. But I would think that you should not take time asking around if the leg is swelling. It would be cruel to let the kitten lay there if in pain.

If you can't afford to take care of the kitten please take the kitten to a local rescue or a no kill site. Turn the kitten over and possibly the other one and mother too. They will see to it that the cats get the medical attention they need. The mother could also need attention after having such a difficult labor/delivery.

It can be a difficult decision to bring the kittens/cat in for help and to give them up but sometimes it's the best thing to do. .