I just have a little question about this. If oil is trading at a spacific price per barrel, then it's that price, not different here and there, right?
If that is the case, why do the national prices from lowest to highest, differ by almost $2.00. Just here in my town, they differ by six cents per gallon.
Yes, the big oil companies, and the government are making a lot of $ on this, but doesn't this prove that the middle man is sticking us also?
And isn't that what Bush's little "investigation" is supposed to uncover?
It seems obvious to me.
All opinions are appreciated, educated or otherwise!
I too am upset about gas prices, but let me say this.
Maybe it's our own fault. The folks running the petroleum companies are simply cashing in on our lifestyles. Think about it. What's the most popular type of vehicle on the road right now? SUV's. Gas guzzling tire chewing monsters. There is almost no one out there that needs these vehicles. But there being bought up as fast as they can be produced. Now, people running the numbers at the gas companies are calculating how much extra money can be made from a public who apparantly doesn't care about fuel cost if they buy vehicles getting 12 MPG.
Of couse I know that not everyone doesn't care about fuel costs, but from the perspective of the gas companies, on the whole, we're a wastefull society that can afford the gas hikes.
Should the government step in? That makes me nervous. I can't think of too many things that work better or cheaper after the government gets involved.
Solution? Public pressure of course. Expose the greedy gasmen for what they are, publicly. That also means don't accept the "press release" statements offered by the local and national lazy news groups that spoon feed us what the big guys want us to here. It's not about hurricanes, middle east tension, short supply, lack of refinery capacity or any other lame excuse that we're given. It's about the money. As long as these guys think we're stupid, they'll treat us like it.
Oil and gas aren't the same thing. Gas prices vary because 1) the oil companies sell the gas at different prices at different times (and different prices from company to company), and b) the price of gas is set by the station owners, who have to mark-up the gas to the point where they aren't losing money on it, which is going to be a different amount from one station to the next.
Also, the oil price you hear about in the news isn't really an absolute price paid across the board at that second by every company anywhere. It's the future's price of it; it's traded like a stock. It's indicative of general price, yes, but that's all.
Thanks for the info. Crys.
Though I could have done without the belittling statement that gas and oil are not the same thing, I was hoping someone would pop up to explain the details that way. Thanks!
__________________
XSWINNYX
If you find that you have lost your marbles, Chances are, I have them in my pocket.
Finders, Keepers!
Gas companies/gas stations know they can raise prices and people will pay. People are too reliant on cars and driving.
If people would walk more, ride bikes (regular bike, I'm not talking motorcycle), or even carpool more... then gas prices wouldn't be a huge issue. There is also public transportation to use, which is a great deal.
If people would do these things more, it would save lots of money, plus lessen traffic in many areas.
I would like to try and take a bus to save the economy the expense of running my SUV. First, send me a bus that comes wayyy out here in the woods, yet it must be here at 500 a.m., so I can get my son to day care where he gets on the school bus, then on to another town by 600 a.m. so I can get my daughter to school so she can sit and do her homework before school begins. Then this bus must get me to my job in yet another town nearby, by 700 a.m.. I can go on with the trip home, but as ya get it,,,gonna cost me alot to take public transportation and perhaps a week of waiting at a bus stop just to get halfway to where I am going. Give me a horse, honey, and I will learn to make it work...forget the public transportation. I need more privacy than that, besides, they don't go fast enough for me. My SUV gets good milage considering it gets me through corn fields and makes my kids laugh when we need a joy ride now and then. Oh yes, it IS the big shots playing the sqwak box stock market. Our money gets sucked up by the big rich boys. No, I don't see it getting back to the good old days. Yet, I have found a huge salvation in this. Instead of running around town like we did not so long ago; we stay home alot more now and find things to do like they did a hundred years ago. Yeah, I do wish I had a smaller car for work-days, but til then I am gonna count my blessings. When you find a solution to the greed, let me know and I will be there to rally along by your side.
Considering the misconceptions I've come up against before (like people calling the Sun a "planet" or thinking water is an element or who can't understand why their computer won't work when their power is out), common sense tells me to ALWAYS take what people say at face value. I'm not a mind reader; I can only go based on what's there.
Also, the media tends to push that concept, that gas and oil are essentially the same, even though they're only the same in the way that plastic and oil are the same. A lot of people DO think they are the same thing. I've said exactly the same thing I posted above to so many people over the last year or so that I haven't bothered counting them.
So as far as petroleium prices are concerned, as long as we (US) refuse to develop our own domestic supply, we will be at the 'mercy' of foreign sources .
We are told it is global supply and demand. Ok, then why does the US House and Senate insist on not adding to the 'supply'?
Our government also bows to the enviornmentalists demand for switching electrical power supply plants from coal to natural gas; thus raising competition for that natural gas with the home owner. We have over 200 years worth of coal for electrical power right here and the technology exists to burn it cleanly.
It is going to be tough to watch Castro and China pull all that cude out of the Gulf of Mexico just 45 miles off Key West. And I don't hear Harry Belefonte or the 'green/commies' bitching about Castro endangering the pristine enviornment.
I agree that the answer is to get away from oil dependency.
However, "clean" coal is only clean in the sense that washing your dishes in mud makes them "cleaner" than washing them in a barrel of tar. "Clean" is really a misnomer. It might better be called "less filthy".
However, alternative energy is going to require environmental sacrifices regardless of what we go with. Wind turbines harm birds, dams harm the surrounding ecosystem, coal destroys our air and water and pushes us closer to becoming New Venus, nuclear power generates waste that we cannot safely deal with (not to mention the chances of another Chernobyl), oil is much like coal in its damage, and solar power, though a good supplement, is not efficient enough to be our primary source of power generation. It's a matter of weighing damage vs. benefit. Coal, oil and nuclear power all create more damage than benefit but people can't see beyond their next three minutes of power use (and the oil companies want it to stay that way). If they could, we wouldn't be having this discussion because we'd employ a completely diverse system of power generation where shortfalls in one area (ie, as oil runs out) would be picked up seamlessly with "alternative" energy sources, without price hikes.
As for people complaining about Castro... you're very wrong. The problem is that we're not Cubans and have no say in their govt. Heck, even the Cubans have very little say in their govt. and would probably be executed for saying some of the things that we've said about them. You may think all of us who don't want the world destroyed for other people's greed are "commies" (an an insult, as though believing in any political ideology other than your own, even obviously impractical ones, is a bad thing) but you're just flat out wrong.
There should be only two groups of people upset at high gas prices. 1.) the people who drive very fuel efficient cars because they are doing their part. They don't need to stroke their ego by driving a large truck/suv when they really have no purpose for it but to make themselves look/feel good. 2.) FARMERS Everything else is useless in the world unless you have food on your plate. The TV, your car, your job--everything! Remember when farmers were the only ones who drove trucks(before they became COOL).
I am an ex-farmer whose car gets 30 mpg but I won't complain about the price of gas. It truly is in your power to lower your gas costs.
I would bet if they sold gas at a price relative to your MPG(i.e $1.00/gal for 40+mpg upward to $5.00/gal for 10 mpg vehicles) the world would look at their life and lifestyle a little different.
gas prices have dipped abit in the last few days. I think the reason is, people have quit buying so much. So if we all cut way back as much as possible, the oil companies will start to lose money. Also, if you quit drinking and smoking, eat wheat bread and take vitamins, it dosent matter, casuse youre still gonna die!
:idea: I'm thinking that the price of gas is not really an issue. It's the fact that those that have money, make money. I think that if we were to use alternate fuel sources, they would be high priced in no time too. You can use used vegetable oil in diesel engines, and restaurants throw it away. But if the demand for it goes up, it will be just like the liquid gold we are pouring into our cars now. If everyone started riding a bike, you soon would not be able to find a bike for less then $500. :x
Another question...
If fossil fuels take thousands of years to produce, theoretically, there would still be a constant replenishing of them. If we suck up oil now, that was plants and animals thousands of years ago, then the plants and animals that died a year later, would be oil a year later, wouldn't it? :?:
__________________
XSWINNYX
If you find that you have lost your marbles, Chances are, I have them in my pocket.
Finders, Keepers!
:idea: I'm thinking that the price of gas is not really an issue. It's the fact that those that have money, make money. I think that if we were to use alternate fuel sources, they would be high priced in no time too. You can use used vegetable oil in diesel engines, and restaurants throw it away. But if the demand for it goes up, it will be just like the liquid gold we are pouring into our cars now. If everyone started riding a bike, you soon would not be able to find a bike for less then $500. :x
Well the difference is that you're turning the waste from one product into something useful in its own right. I dont really agree with your point about bikes either. Sure, there would probably be high end bikes, since you'd want something that could hold up to the abuse of your daily commute. You wouldn't want your chain breaking or wheels falling off on the freeway. There would still be a market for the type you get from kmart though. The marketplace would still be competitive, so manufacturers would still need to keep prices low since the barrier to entry into the bicycle market (oh, if my econ professor could read this) is pretty low compared to the barrier to entry into the oil or car business.
Quote:
Another question...
If fossil fuels take thousands of years to produce, theoretically, there would still be a constant replenishing of them. If we suck up oil now, that was plants and animals thousands of years ago, then the plants and animals that died a year later, would be oil a year later, wouldn't it? :?:
Yeah, but you have to take into acount how long the fossil fuels took to produce compared to how quickly we are using them up. It took billions of years to create our current supply and we're now worrying about running out after what, 150 years? People weren't driving cars during most of human history. I guess if you're planning on being around long enough for the next batch to be ready, then it's not a big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeman
There should be only two groups of people upset at high gas prices. 1.) the people who drive very fuel efficient cars because they are doing their part. They don't need to stroke their ego by driving a large truck/suv when they really have no purpose for it but to make themselves look/feel good. 2.) FARMERS Everything else is useless in the world unless you have food on your plate. The TV, your car, your job--everything! Remember when farmers were the only ones who drove trucks(before they became COOL).
I am an ex-farmer whose car gets 30 mpg but I won't complain about the price of gas. It truly is in your power to lower your gas costs.
I would bet if they sold gas at a price relative to your MPG(i.e $1.00/gal for 40+mpg upward to $5.00/gal for 10 mpg vehicles) the world would look at their life and lifestyle a little different.
My car gets about 27 hwy and I'm pretty upset about gas prices. Between work and school I have to drive a lot. I can't afford one of the trendy new fuel efficient cars, especially when gas uses up a large part of my disposable income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crys
nuclear power generates waste that we cannot safely deal with (not to mention the chances of another Chernobyl),
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with your depection of nuclear power. The advances in breeder reactor technology are lowering the waste generated by the plants. The chances of a Chernobyl type accident happening in the US are practically, if not, zero. The Chernobyl plant was one was a very antiquated one, even at that time, and was known to be unsafe. Not to mention all the human error and denial involved. I'll PM you a link to a very interesting thread I read about it. You'll probably gag when you see the url, but oh well
The sentiment in the link you sent me may be right in small part -- I lived through the end of the cold war. We had nuclear bomb drills in my elementary school (they told us to hide under our desks while the principal and a bunch of city officials went to the bunker underneath the school, if that tells you anything about their priorities). I followed Chernobyl pretty closely in the news and exchanged letters through a school program with a child who lived not far outside the area that was declared unsafe.
BUT, there are plenty of reasons to prefer alternatives that don't include nuclear power, without any need for my antipathy to be created by my childhood. Human error is a MAJOR problem, the most likely cause of any meltdown, and considering the way employees are treated in this country, I doubt that you could say it would be a smaller factor here in any new reactor. Never underestimate the stupidity and incompetence of people, or the apathy created by employers who treat their employees as resources to be used up and discarded rather than as people. Plus, if you get a little leakage from, say, a coal plant, it does damage but it can be cleaned up (can, but usually isn't. But it CAN be). If the coal plant goes up in smoke, it can be cleaned up and rebuilt. The waste they put out can be dealt with and will break down in a reasonable time. The nuclear waste we already have will outlast humans as a species and there's no place to put it. There is no way to completely contain it even if there was a place to put it safely. Areas where it's stored now have higher radiation levels and major health problems in the surrounding population. Existing nuclear plants have higher cancer levels in the surrounding area as it is, even when they're working normally. If we weren't skimping on the space program, the waste could be shot into the sun safely (if you could find a safe way to get it into space that didn't risk exposing millions of people to radiation poisoning if the ship blows up on its way into space), but shy of that? No solution. If a nuclear reactor blows up, the area around it will remain blasted and destroyed, more or less permanently. It's a small chance at any given reactor at any given second, but when you add it up, it's inevitable that there will be problems, and the waste is a certainty, not a small chance. A small chance with big consequences that will affect the entire planet does not really equal a small chance.
Swinny- I agree that if we used alternative energy, they'd be high priced too. It's human nature. But they wouldn't be able to use reduction of one resource as a reason to hike the prices (not as much as they do, anyway). Also, there would be less pollution and damage overall.
Fossil fuels... well, to use modern amounts as an equivalency. These are rough amounts. Paleontology is one of my hobbies, so I know a bit about this. Consider all the plant and vegetable matter that dies in the entire world in a year. Most of it decays naturally into soil. A small amount, say the amount equal to one moderately small wooded area every year, gets buried in such a way as it MIGHT produce fossils. 99% of that is destroyed through natural processes either before or after it becomes a stone fossil. A minscule amount, say one deer every decade, is buried in such a way as to, instead of becoming a stone fossil or decaying normally, create oil. It creates less than a thimble-full of oil, and takes a variable amount of time to do it in. That's why it's not a continually renewing source with more popping up every year.
I'll stick with what I said about the bikes, Supply and demand. At least that would be the excuse. "Kmart" bikes would be less expensive then high end bikes, but it all would go up in price. If they didn't, these places would pick up the higher end bikes, to make more money.
__________________
XSWINNYX
If you find that you have lost your marbles, Chances are, I have them in my pocket.
Finders, Keepers!
Yeah, I noticed this morning that it's up another six cents from yesterday. It's insane. Absolutely insane.
Maybe it's time for me to start lobbying the village to add a park and ride -type bus stop to lure the city busses out to our village so I can switch to public transportation...
...I guess that would also require the industrial complexes in Sussex to be on the bus line too. :roll:
Just a comment on waste.
I love to drive fast, going 72 on a 65 zone, get to where I am going cause life is such a rush. Yet going the speed limit these days saves me a few bucks on my gas. Yeah. I hate to keep it at that speed, but it is SAVING MY MONEY. Now, for you who gets sick of my speed limit, and races around me, don't waste it dude, as most often I end up right behind you at the red light up the road anyway...so...you just wasted that liquid gold and ya wonder why you are paying so much. :roll:
Just a comment on waste.
I love to drive fast, going 72 on a 65 zone, get to where I am going cause life is such a rush. Yet going the speed limit these days saves me a few bucks on my gas. Yeah. I hate to keep it at that speed, but it is SAVING MY MONEY. Now, for you who gets sick of my speed limit, and races around me, don't waste it dude, as most often I end up right behind you at the red light up the road anyway...so...you just wasted that liquid gold and ya wonder why you are paying so much. :roll:
I posted in this topic a while ago, but I felt like I needed to again.
(This contains some of what I said before, so bear with me... if you read my earlier post).
If people would learn to SAVE gas more, then prices wouldn't be an issue. But people are lazy too much, and would rather complain than do something about it.
Ways to save money:
-Ride a bike
-Carpool
-Walk to places that aren't far away
-Public transportation (usually in the long run, it's alot cheaper than buying a car and spending all that money on it)
-Don't buy food or other items at gas stations (unless you really have to)
(This isn't about gas prices, but I'm just saying... alot of the time things are priced a little higher at gas stations.)
If people would buy less gas, gas companies would realize they must lower their prices to get customers back. I doubt it will ever happen though, because of people being stubborn and lazy.
Rob, I completely agree with you... except for the fact that everyone I know already conserves gas as much as they can (which is not to say everyone does. Like I said, I agree with you ). There is no public transportation as far out of the city as I live and work. I do all my grocery shopping on the way home from work, rather than getting home and going back out. We sit in our apartment on the weekends going nowhere because we can't afford the gas. It takes as much gas to get to and from work as it takes. I drive over sixty miles every day between getting myself and my husband to and from work (this is after we moved closer to my work. We work in different cities, and we've moved to a point that reduces our driving as much as possible). I will have to buy the same amount of gas whether the price is 50 cents a gallon or $50 a gallon. Gas is not a luxury that we can just boycott across the board to make the companies bring the price down. We are a captive market, and the gas companies know that. There is no incentive for them to do anything but raise their prices to make more profit.
Crys
Not everyone has your situation. I used to work for a company that had showers so I could ride my bike to work and shower when I got there. I was ready for work and fresh! That job went away and now I do not have the luxury of showers where I work. In these time though you hate to push your employer for anything, so I keep my mouth shut!!
I do miss riding my bike to work
Now I make 65% of what I used to make and getting there is much much more costly!!!!!
OnYourMark, LLC is a full-service web design, production, programming, hosting and Internet marketing company with audio, photography and video services in our studio on Main Street in Sussex, Wisconsin or at your location.
We serve clients in industry, healthcare, eCommerce, professional services, real estate and construction, information services, hospitality, advertising agencies, and more...throughout Wisconsin and the USA. Please contact OnYourMark for a free, no-obligation consultation about increasing your inquiries and sales while decreasing your costs via the web.
Linear Mode
