"More Devils In The Church Than Out"

[Crys]

Yes, if this discussion was about ANY religion and some idjit started hounding people to convert to their religion, I would ban them (the thread was approaching that, and I'd had PMs asking me to delete the thread because of it). People trying to force conversion down other people's throats creates an oppressive, discriminatory, harassing, threatening atmosphere and I will not tolerate it.

If you want to talk to people AND THEY ASK about your religion, go ahead and tell them the good points, why you chose it over any other religion. IF THEY DECIDE to pursue further information, joining you, whatever, good for them. But that's THEIR decision, not yours to hound and harass until they do.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Crys

If you want to talk to people AND THEY ASK about your religion, go ahead and tell them the good points, why you chose it over any other religion. IF THEY DECIDE to pursue further information, joining you, whatever, good for them. But that's THEIR decision, not yours to hound and harass until they do.

I have been out of the loop for a few months and didn't mean to let this hang unanswer/ unresponded to for so long.

Removing a scab you might say.

I don't believe in hounding...but I do believe in birthing the conversation of eternity of where someone will spend it. I use "birth" for a reason...when I was born into this world I didn't asked to be here, but two people came together and said lets create life (or at least had the means to create life and did so) and here I am just like any one else who is breathing today or has ever breathed before. I didn't ask for this but I'm here and alive and am happy to be alive. Our spiritual birth is also the same. Many (including me) didn't ask for God to come before us and call us into a new life. Even though it was like I was never alive in the first place, but people came to me and had the means to create life. They brought the breath of God and I breathed it in and I have become "Born again". I didn't ask for it but just like I never asked my folks to do what they did, I'm alive and happy even more so now than ever before.

As a believer in any faith I would imagine that would be the call to that believer. To share and express their faith, because unless they believe in what you believe how will they come to the truth in life. If you say that it doesn't matter what you follow or you can believe whatever you want. Then you are saying that there is no substance to what you believe and I would have to say that your faith (whatever it may be) doesn’t matter at all. But in Christianity it does matter, in fact in a lot of different faiths it matters, because it means forever to that faith. So the believer of those faiths spread what's been brought to them.

Fortunately (or unfortunately all depending on the person) it doesn't matter what your personal preference is, you just better be 100% without doubt, because the truth will be before us rather we believe it or not. For example: just because I didn't know what gravity was when I was a child that didn't mean that it didn't exist. The Almighty God is the same way. So it is a call to all Christians to sow seed, water and pray. Not to beat over the head of an unbeliever something that they don't understand, but to pray that their eyes would be opened and that their pride would be cast down.

In Christianity pure ignorance and innocence will grant you a place in heaven, so does true repentance. But if you know and reject because of pride or it doesn't suit you, your life style or what have you, then you lie in the bed that you have made. Christianity is cut and dry and straight forward, people love it or leave it. We don't make up the rules... God does.


Joshua

[Crys]

Joshua-

My response was to a post claiming I wouldn't have a problem with people trying to peddle their religion in our forums if it wasn't a Christian religion, and oh, how _oppressed_ the "poor" ruling religious class is. It wasn't a response to what you'd written above. In fact, I think we've had a pretty meaningful, frank dialogue on the subject overall, here and elsewhere, and I'd prefer to keep it that way

Let me address a few things though that you bring up. You don't know the Truth. I don't know the Truth. No one actually knows THE Truth about religion (though just about everyone is certain they do). Your religion is no more or less valid than that of a faithful Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, Gnostic Christian, Celtic Recon, or Jew, nor is it any more or less valid or likely to be true than the lack of religion of an Atheist. My job is to stand in the breach between these equally valid religions and philosophies and keep users from treading on each other's religions and civil rights. I take that job very seriously, not because I get paid to do it, but because it is the responsibility of every human on the planet to do so. People ignoring that responsibility is the root of most of the conflict, war, oppression, and wrongful death throughout history. To misquote, your right to swing your religion ends at the tip of my nose.

To say that because I refuse to cram my religion down other people's throats I must not have any meaningful faith is, well, a pretty insulting thing to say. For instance, I believe in Reincarnation, and I have memories from my last several lives to back up my faith. But you believe in Heaven and Hell, and you have people claiming to have visions to back your belief up (or you may have had them yourself). I suspect our faith on the subject is equally strong. But faith is not fact. Gut feeling is not proof. Fact is, we're probably both wrong. Or maybe we're both right. What's important is not whether or not you're right or I'm right, it's that we respect each other's right to our own experiences and beliefs.

That's only about religion though, things that we can't possibly know scientifically. Facts don't have two sides. If you ferverently believe that all eggs are square, you shouldn't get equal air time in the name of false "balance" just because you believe it with every fiber of your being.

I suspect that you didn't mean that about ignorance quite the way it reads? Pure and willful ignorance is just about the biggest blight on the face of humanity!

You DO make up the rules, if not you in particular, then someone before you, and you interpret (and therefore remake) those rules in light of your own understanding of them. It may be done IN THE NAME OF a particular diety, with or without their consent, knowledge, or existence, but ultimately, all religions are created by people, and changed by the people who follow them.

[Joshua]

I'm seeing our faith's is like a game of poker, each one of us betting that we have the better hand (or so I don't take you wrong a better understanding of what life is all about)...I know you don't claim to know the truth. But as in poker there are rules and one hand will out beat all the rest. Truth created the laws in poker just as we didn't make up rules to life but the Creator did. We all can believe what we like and twist and contort it to whatever we want it to say. But I know that that's the reason for the wars (the twisting of God's rule and command to what we want it to say). I don't think that you should cram anything down anyone throat, I know you can't open the eyes of anyone that way...I stated that before. I just like to show people the hand that was dealt to me to prove that I have a winning hand.

I can say that we should know the truth and have faith and confidence in what God has shown us. If we don't know what the truth is then we need to keep looking. If your (that is anyone...I'm not pointing you out alone)are confortable where we're at, then in the end there will be a call, and all hands will be shown and we will find out what beats out what. Like I said previously...you'd better be 100% sure, if your not you better turn your hand in and seek for the winning hand.

You should know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Joshua

[j10asen]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I just like to show people the hand that was dealt to me to prove that I have a winning hand.

Like I said previously...you'd better be 100% sure, if your not you better turn your hand in and seek for the winning hand.

You should know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Joshua

Hey Joshua I have one question.
Are you certain you are looking at the correct side of the cards?

I not betting my salvation on a deck of cards
I ain't no animal in no stinking baryard
life is what happen when you are busy making other plans
don't be so certain they are talking about you
what looks large from a distance , close up is never that big
when you ain't got nothing, you ain't got nothing to lose
all we are saying is give peace a chance
Clichés are meaningless

What does not kill you, (or others) will make you stronger

If you follow the BIG ten you don't need to play cards

Here is an old traditional song done by Bob Dylan
I think it says it all

Mary wore three links of chain,
Ev'ry link was Jesus name,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.
Mary, Mark and Luke and John,
All these prophets so good and gone,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.

I never been to heaven, but I've been told,
Streets up there are line with gold,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.

Dig my grave with a bloody spade,
See that my digger gets well paid,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.

That gospel line gets mighty hot,
But just hang on with all you got,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.

When I get to the glory land,
Gonna play in the glory land,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on.

[Joshua]

I meant the poker game to be a figure of speech. I don't feel like I'm gambling with my faith. I was just stating that if your not fully convinced in what you believe in. Then you need to rethink what or whom your following.

Christ said "I didn't come to save the religious, but to bring the sinner to repentance"...the broken hearted and the lost is who God is searching for. God knows who is ready and who isn't. Christ told a pharsie (sp?) that he would not be able to understand/see until he realized that he was blind. Basicly until we understand that we need help and salvation we shall never see it or understand what the cross was all about.

"The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish but to those whom are saved it's the power of God".

God loves all but hates sin, we just got to learn to wash each other's feet. Some people just don't like to have their feet touched.

Joshua

[j10asen]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I meant the poker game to be a figure of speech. I don't feel like I'm gambling with my faith. I was just stating that if your not fully convinced in what you believe in. Then you need to rethink what or whom your following.

Joshua

I understood your metaphor, I just wanted to get you thinking.

"I never been to heaven, but I've been told,
Streets up there are line with gold,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on."
......Bob Dylan

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by j10asen

"I never been to heaven, but I've been told,
Streets up there are line with gold,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on,
Oh, Lord, Oh, Lord,
Keep-a your hand on that plow, hold on."
......Bob Dylan

Gotcha...thanks

[Moosebreath]

thanks for all the good reading above. Made me think, which is good.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Moosebreath

thanks for all the good reading above. Made me think, which is good.

that's awesome because that's exactly what it's suppose to do. There is truth...we got to search for it. One interesting piece of scripture reads "for you haven't chosen me, but I have chosen you". also "seek and you shall find"...the truth will be revealed and unrefutable (sp?)...meaning, you'll know when you have found it.

[AJE]

He Calls Himself God

1/28/2007
By Arian Campo-Flores
Newsweek


A Puerto Rican minister says Christ 'integrated' with him. Others call him a cult leader and a charlatan.

Feb. 5, 2007 issue - At first glance, the congregation gathered in a warehouse in Doral, Fla., seems like a typical Hispanic evangelical group. There's the 10-piece band, the singing and swaying, the whooping and hollering. But look a little more closely. There's not a cross in sight. The lectern is emblazoned with a near replica of the U.S. presidential seal, except that it reads in Spanish, government of god on earth. Off to the side stand three burly guys in dark suits with Secret Service-style earpieces. When a door by the stage opens, the guards leap into action. They surround the man with slicked-back hair who emerges and escort him to his seat. When the crowd spots him, it goes wild. People chant, "Lord! Lord! Lord!" It quickly becomes clear that they're referring to him. "It's Jesus Christ himself!" a preacher onstage announces. "Let's welcome Jesus Christ Man!"



For the complete Article please follow: :arrow:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840066/site/newsweek/

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: As for my own tidbit I thinks its another cult who is brian washing like the Jones fellow in CA & David Koresh TX... taking his poor worshipers down with them.

Whats your thoughts? :evil:

[Crys]

That's disgusting. He can't even get his own story straight! He's Paul! No, he's Jesus Christ! No, he's the AntiChrist!

Bah. I don't understand how people can be taken in by something so transparent.